Relegation

[Whitburn Vale]

I was at the above mentioned game last Saturday,a reasonable crowd attended the game,especially due to the bad weather.The juniors have a lot to offer but where the juniors let themselves down is facilities wise, I've been to many a SHFL and SLFL ground as well as junior and only a small number of the juniors can match the facilities that are on offer widely in the LL/HL.Everybody can pick the bones clean off the other grade but the fact of the matter is they are worlds apart for different reasons and if I'm being honest,they're heading in different directions not getting closer together. There isn't an argument burnie man when it comes to crowds,the Senior game starts from the top of the Premiership right down to the SOS/EOS,clearly more people watch senior football.

[newcastle broon]

I'm responding to points others have made. Try it sometime and perhaps add to it.

You can choose to ignore other comments though Burnie_man why persist wi a junior LL argument when you said yourself it's tiresome........ Already added my point there's a team from the sos league quite capable of joining the LL next season thus relegating the bottom team from the LL as this thread topic suggests

Maybe if you put as much effort into persuading the Juniors into working with the other tiers of Scottish football - as you bleat constantly is your wish - there would be a chance of this progress you claim to so desperately want. Again, are you going to follow up on Cicero's suggested course of action? Talk is cheap, actions show sincerity in your wish for matters to progress. But we've all guessed by now that you & your unhinged muppet sidekick are only here to troll. Clearly the Junior section doesn't do it for you anymore - which says it all really (come to that, it's not as if either of you even appears to bother posting there anymore)   Agreed. Long overdue the mods stepping in & punting these two clowns, who have zero interest in the Lowlands. There's a reason Junior fans get this reputation of being the mentally disturbed wing of P&B. Partly unfair when there's plenty of bloody good people such as Jamie Wire, & it's behaviour like this which doesn't help.

Your not helping matters either wi your comments though

[Burnie_man]

I was at the above mentioned game last Saturday,a reasonable crowd attended the game,especially due to the bad weather.The juniors have a lot to offer but where the juniors let themselves down is facilities wise, I've been to many a SHFL and SLFL ground as well as junior and only a small number of the juniors can match the facilities that are on offer widely in the LL/HL.Everybody can pick the bones clean off the other grade but the fact of the matter is they are worlds apart for different reasons and if I'm being honest,they're heading in different directions not getting closer together. There isn't an argument burnie man when it comes to crowds,the Senior game starts from the top of the Premiership right down to the SOS/EOS,clearly more people watch senior football.

 

Agree re facilites, Whitburn should have a lot better than what they do, same with many bigger Junior clubs. Having been to a lot of Highland League venues over the years they are light years ahead of the Junior game overall. The LL is also moving ahead in that regard with clubs improving facilities, floodlights, stands etc.

 

Re crowds, just comparing like for like given that LL is top end of the Senior non-league game and the game we were at is the bottom end of the Junior game.

[newcastle broon]

 

Re crowds, just comparing like for like given that LL is top end of the Senior non-league game and the game we were at is the bottom end of the Junior game.

Isa will be proud of you Burnie

[Burnie_man]

You can choose to ignore other comments though Burnie_man why persist wi a junior LL argument when you said yourself it's tiresome........ Already added my point there's a team from the sos league quite capable of joining the LL next season thus relegating the bottom team from the LL as this thread topic suggests

 

 

Fair enough, although I was responding to Marrs comments about Junior fitba 

 

Given that Waffle is now involved, I shall bow out of this particular thread. there's only so many times I can handle reading about muppets and shitgibbons

[Burnie_man]

Isa will be proud of you Burnie

 

LOL, that didn't read quite as intended!

[Whitburn Vale]

Agree re facilites, Whitburn should have a lot better than what they do, same with many bigger Junior clubs. Having been to a lot of Highland League venues over the years they are light years ahead of the Junior game overall. The LL is also moving ahead in that regard with clubs improving facilities, floodlights, stands etc.

Re crowds, just comparing like for like given that LL is top end of the Senior non-league game and the game we were at is the bottom end of the Junior game.

Yep Whitburn should have better facilities but like the above mentioned Meadow,they got themselves into all kinds of financial trouble,when they were in the Superleague they were paying players exorbitant wages,one bad winter later,with zero income the club and the social club very nearly went under. Whitburn are a big Junior club,there honours board says it all but burnie there crowds have dropped over the last decade like a lot of junior clubs,what's the answer I do not know but one thing I do know is the SLFL clubs are not only getting a chance of promotion they're now getting a hit at the league cup and challenge cup. St .Cuthberts possibly getting promotion this season shows what can be done. Unfortunately this juniors v LL sideshow is gonna run and run until someone somewhere has the baws tae sort it out.

[Rab B Nesbit]

Yep Whitburn should have better facilities but like the above mentioned Meadow,they got themselves into all kinds of financial trouble,when they were in the Superleague they were paying players exorbitant wages,one bad winter later,with zero income the club and the social club very nearly went under. Whitburn are a big Junior club,there honours board says it all but burnie there crowds have dropped over the last decade like a lot of junior clubs,what's the answer I do not know but one thing I do know is the SLFL clubs are not only getting a chance of promotion they're now getting a hit at the league cup and challenge cup. St .Cuthberts possibly getting promotion this season shows what can be done. Unfortunately this juniors v LL sideshow is gonna run and run until someone somewhere has the baws tae sort it out.

Good post WV. Already only 3 years in can see the progress being made by the LL. With entry into the League Cup, Challenge Cup and other things likely to come off I can only see our clubs getting stronger.

[surely not!]

Good post WV. Already only 3 years in can see the progress being made by the LL. With entry into the League Cup, Challenge Cup and other things likely to come off I can only see our clubs getting stronger.

Spot on rab. Even The teams that have not progressed on the park have made big strides off it.

The product, quality of player and opportunity that the league itself presents (cup entry) as well as the increased number of teams participating in the u20s league are all big steps forward IMO.

If it continues to progress at this rate over the next three or four years then we could see a good few LL teams make the step up and a good few other teams outwith strive very hard to get in.

[WaffenThinMint]

Your not helping matters either wi your comments though

Fair dos, but I'm tired of every section of the forum you go into, the second one of the Juniors lot turns up it goes from being a discussion into "my gang's bigger than your gang" levels.

 

Every. Single. Time.

I've been a moderator in a number of fan forums & still am in two (ironically enough one currently being the very forum the west coast delusional claimed I was banned from earlier, but that's a long story...), one being one of those dreaded "corporate" ones where you soon discover expecting any advice or guidance from those meant to be holding the purse strings is a false hope.

 

There's one major rule of etiquette common to all however - repeatedly derailing threads on purpose is not tolerated - & pissing all over forum sections in areas you are not interested in out of spite gets you ejected.

 

At least, in forums where the owner isn't dependent on advertising revenue generated from page hits no matter how dubious the context they were generated, but never mind...

But these two are quick enough to moan about morons from GD going into the Juniors section specifically to troll while having no interest in their grade (& rightly so, albeit they do a splendid enough job of alienating decent posters themselves, eg. RobRoyGuy) - time they appreciated that cuts both ways.

 

Here in the Lowland League section there is plenty of slanging matches between rival fans - but there's thankfully never been that level of bitterness which seems to be a Juniors thread trademark, & I for one prefer that it should stay that way.

 

As for Bitter_Man claiming I was an oddball, better to be that than a Moriarty:-

 

[Burnie_man]

Fair dos, but I'm tired of every section of the forum you go into, the second one of the Juniors lot turns up it goes from being a discussion into "my gang's bigger than your gang" levels.

 

Every. Single. Time.

I've been a moderator in a number of fan forums & still am in two (ironically enough one currently being the very forum the west coast delusional claimed I was banned from earlier, but that's a long story...), one being one of those dreaded "corporate" ones where you soon discover expecting any advice or guidance from those meant to be holding the purse strings is a false hope.

 

There's one major rule of etiquette common to all however - repeatedly derailing threads on purpose is not tolerated - & pissing all over forum sections in areas you are not interested in out of spite gets you ejected.

 

At least, in forums where the owner isn't dependent on advertising revenue generated from page hits no matter how dubious the context they were generated, but never mind...

But these two are quick enough to moan about morons from GD going into the Juniors section specifically to troll while having no interest in their grade (& rightly so, albeit they do a splendid enough job of alienating decent posters themselves, eg. RobRoyGuy) - time they appreciated that cuts both ways.

 

Here in the Lowland League section there is plenty of slanging matches between rival fans - but there's thankfully never been that level of bitterness which seems to be a Juniors thread trademark, & I for one prefer that it should stay that way.

 

As for Bitter_Man claiming I was an oddball, better to be that than a Moriarty:-

 

 

Just to reply to your fantasy posting, I do not troll forums, I debate points as I hope most people on this topic would agree, we sometime agree, we sometimes disagree but that is what forums are about, I've been debating with the same people on here for years, even met a few, chatted via PM, asked for advice, have given advice. All convivial and good natured, until you come along slinging accusation and calling people muppets and such like - yet you claim to moderate forums? more fantasy?

 

On the subject of RobRoyGuy, I rarely if ever interact with him on here, I actually know him in the real world outwith Pie and Bovril, so to even try to imply that I have somehow been involved in any shenanigans on the Junior forum involving him (I don't even know what they might be) just shows you up for what you are, a gobshite who will make anything up to make your look clever. It's desperate stuff. You've been caught out more than once doing that in the past and this is another occasion.

 

The only people currently derailing decent debate is YOU, people on here barely understand what on earth it is that you're even on about half the time. So a word of advice, stop embarrassing yourself, stop making stuff up & stop abusing other posters.

 

Apologies to everyone on this thread but this had to be challenged. My advice is everyone stick him on ignore, unless he's providing you with a good laugh!

 

Anyway, relegation...........

[WaffenThinMint]

I shall bow out of this particular thread.

A mere two hours later...

 

Apologies to everyone on this thread but this had to be challenged.

Enough said. Just can't help yourself, can you?

[Grim O'Grady]

Thanks for pointing out the Banks O'Dee situation but if enough clubs were like Banks they would have no option but to create a HL2 or LL2, I know this has been discussed before on this forum. I'm aware the pyramid system isn't perfect but it's better than we had before and hopefully through time the SFA will hopefully take responsibility and come up with an acceptable solution.

Exactly Ed, although this is supposed to be about relegation it's turned again in to another Junior topic.

The Juniors don't want the pyramid, they were invited to the pyramid party they chose to stay at home.

It is Scottish footballs loss that they chose to ignore the pyramid but it's here despite them & they can chomp their gums as much as they like the pyramid will evolve with or without them & it's not going away.

The pyramid is progression & it's far too easy to blame the SFA for not dragging them kicking & screaming into the 21st century, the Luddite League is their domain, they just like to keep throwing their boots at our League to spanner it but like I say it's not going to stop it, they can't take us back in time.

Back to the furore.

Grimbo

[LongTimeLurker]

There is no pyramid without the juniors. A pyramid league structure involves all the clubs in a country and not just a select cartel operating as a self-preservation society so pub team level outfits like Rothes can still operate at tier five.

 

We're at a point where the Juniors are now in decline and the non-league seniors are in incline. The only two clubs who are prepared to make a jump in the right direction are Haddington Athletic and Banks O'Dee (with others in north not too far behind). 

 

It's not clear that Haddington Athletic are planning to join the EoS league given Old Northerner recently clarified that point on here as being only his own opinion of what they should do, and it's not even fully clear that the SFA would expect them to. That's why they can be viewed as the test case for what the progression clause really means now that the LL is probably about to reach its full compliment of 16 clubs courtesy of East Stirling and/or St Cuthberts Wanderers given Threave will probably get a reprieve from relegation to fill any remaining vacancy.

[surely not!]

There is no pyramid without the juniors. A pyramid league structure involves all the clubs in a country and not just a select cartel operating as a self-preservation society so pub team level outfits like Rothes can still operate at tier five.

It's not clear that Haddington Athletic are planning to join the EoS league given Old Northerner recently clarified that point on here as being only his own opinion of what they should do, and it's not even fully clear that the SFA would expect them to. That's why they can be viewed as the test case for what the progression clause really means now that the LL is probably about to reach its full compliment of 16 clubs courtesy of East Stirling and/or St Cuthberts Wanderers given Threave will probably get a reprieve from relegation to fill any remaining vacancy.

Here's a controversial one- Threave might not want the reprieve.......

[WaffenThinMint]

Exactly Ed, although this is supposed to be about relegation it's turned again in to another Junior topic.

The Juniors don't want the pyramid, they were invited to the pyramid party they chose to stay at home.

It is Scottish footballs loss that they chose to ignore the pyramid but it's here despite them & they can chomp their gums as much as they like the pyramid will evolve with or without them & it's not going away.

The pyramid is progression & it's far too easy to blame the SFA for not dragging them kicking & screaming into the 21st century, the Luddite League is their domain, they just like to keep throwing their boots at our League to spanner it but like I say it's not going to stop it, they can't take us back in time.

Back to the furore.

Grimbo

Well said Grim, well said. At the end of the day different grades have their own terms & conditions, & it would be a shame if they all were the same (indeed some clubs would not be around today without there being this diversity).

But with those differences comes mutual respect: or at least it should. I would love the day to come when you see the likes of Spartans vs Talbot on the cards regularly (& I suspect deep down so do Talbot, who have easily outgrown the non-leagues let alone the Juniors...), but it won't happen because no one's going to risk their big fish in the wee pond status.

 

So be it, let's move on.

 

There is no pyramid without the juniors. A pyramid league structure involves all the clubs in a country and not just a select cartel operating as a self-preservation society so pub team level outfits like Rothes can still operate at tier five.

 

Saying there's no pyramid without any other faction which refuses to get involved - Juniors, Amateurs, Welfare, Jumpers For Goalposts, etc - is a fantasy, & deep down you know it. But keep telling yourselves that if it makes you feel any better, although bitter seems nearer the mark.

 

If we all took the naysayers attitude, nothing would ever be done, and the game as a whole up here would suffer as we fall even further behind our English neighbours.

 

But enough! This has gone on long enough - if you're not going to discuss relegation from the LL, please kindly start your own thread. For the record, I hope St Cuthbert's Wanderers do go up - it's just not worked out for Threave, & they need a time out from the LL.

Postscript: For the benefit of any of you still giving LongTimeLurker the benefit of the doubt that he really wants any sort of LL/Juniors unity, over in a galaxy not so far far away this morning:

 

Beyond that I'd find ways to engage with rather than ignore the so called pyramid so that more clubs can enter the main Scottish cup, because cup runs like those that the biggest junior clubs like Irvine Meadow, Bo'ness United, Auchinleck Talbot and Linlithgow Rose have had in recent years (along with the exploits of smaller clubs like Sunnybank) are the best possible free advertisment that the more local alternative to the SPFL is worth a look.

Damning. Only interest in the Scottish Cup freebies is to promote their own grade in competition to the LL, not as part of any baby steps towards working together. Tosser.

[LongTimeLurker]

What a strange individual. Would Threave be allowed to give a reprieve the body swerve or would it just automatically happen? Inquiring minds would like to know and all that. Think it runs counter to the whole idea of progression if a club deliberately decides to play at a lower level than they need to given the SFA have opted to enforce that as a licensing condition (with only Linlithgow Rose getting a waiver on that given it was brought in after their application had been submitted).

[lionel hutz]

What a strange individual. Would Threave be allowed to give a reprieve the body swerve or would it just automatically happen? Inquiring minds would like to know and all that. Think it runs counter to the whole idea of progression if a club deliberately decides to play at a lower level than they need to given the SFA have opted to enforce that as a licensing condition (with only Linlithgow Rose getting a waiver on that given it was brought in after their application had been submitted).

Threave won't be given a reprieve if St Cuthberts win the SoS but I believe they could re-apply if there is still a vacancy against the likes of Burntisland, HRA, Haddington and Edusport. 

[surely not!]

Threave won't be given a reprieve if St Cuthberts win the SoS but I believe they could re-apply if there is still a vacancy against the likes of Burntisland, HRA, Haddington and Edusport.

They don't want a reprieve

[LongTimeLurker]

Threave won't be given a reprieve if St Cuthberts win the SoS but I believe they could re-apply if there is still a vacancy against the likes of Burntisland, HRA, Haddington and Edusport. 

 

It has been explained on here that Haddington are not ready yet for licensing so are not a factor on this for next season. I don't think it makes sense to invite a club to join if they were nowhere near gaining promotion in either the EoS or SoS, so suspect Burntisland, HRA and probably even CSS have zero chance on this. Did clubs not have to already be licensed to apply this time around? Think that rules out Edusport for the vacancy as opposed to promotion, but Glasgow Uni would be the obvious ones to try again a second time around.