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Get licensed. Become full members. Get more of the pie. It's that simple.

 

If there is any danger of that actually happening the goalposts will no doubt get moved again as with the progression clause, which was inserted after junior clubs started to show a genuine interest in licensing. That happened too late to keep Linlithgow Rose out.

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If there is any danger of that actually happening the goalposts will no doubt get moved again as with the progression clause, which was inserted after junior clubs started to show a genuine interest in licensing. That happened too late to keep Linlithgow Rose out.

The progression clause can't be applied properly if a load of junior teams get licensed as there's nowhere for them to go. Stop wondering about the fact that the goalposts will get moved ( they can't) and get it done. Force their hand in terms of getting payments for the junior game.

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Of course they can move the goalposts, as they already have done. The SFA exec can add any extra conditions they see fit to any licensing application. It's in their rules. Haddington Athletic are getting it done. That will be the test case for what happens south of the Tay and will determine how quickly other clubs follow their example.

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Given that the vast majority of non-league clubs are Junior would it not have made sense to find out what they wanted to come on board before setting up the pyramid?

 

Like I said it suits the SFA just fine that they don't have to share the pie amongst another 160 odd clubs.

 

So the rest of Scottish non-league football was supposed to sit and wait for the Juniors to finish their Entmoot deliberations? Aye right.

 

Here we are coming to the business end of season three of the Lowlands, and still no sign of the spoiler East-West League that was threatened by the Juniors when the other non-league clubs realised they were stalling hoping if they did so for long enough it would render the Lowland League stillborn.

 

And what's this "pie" that needed to be "shared"? What have the Juniors contributed to anything outside of themselves which needs to be shared out?

 

The SFA and the Lowland League own the Juniors the sum total of eff all. They were given more than their chance - they were even given freebies into the Senior Scottish Cup as a good will gesture, but all the Juniors have ever been interested in is take, take, take whilst simultaneously treating being as backward as possible as some sort of proud noble tradition the rest of the Scottish football community needs to placate.

 

The Juniors had their chance and blew it - it is up to individual clubs to come to their senses and come over to a structured set up where fans are treated with as much respect as players & expect more for their money than watching overpaid hasbeens and never will bes on a bit of badly rolled spare ground next to a mudhut.

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So the rest of Scottish non-league football was supposed to sit and wait for the Juniors to finish their Entmoot deliberations? Aye right.

 

Here we are coming to the business end of season three of the Lowlands, and still no sign of the spoiler East-West League that was threatened by the Juniors when the other non-league clubs realised they were stalling hoping if they did so for long enough it would render the Lowland League stillborn.

 

And what's this "pie" that needed to be "shared"? What have the Juniors contributed to anything outside of themselves which needs to be shared out?

 

The SFA and the Lowland League own the Juniors the sum total of eff all. They were given more than their chance - they were even given freebies into the Senior Scottish Cup as a good will gesture, but all the Juniors have ever been interested in is take, take, take whilst simultaneously treating being as backward as possible as some sort of proud noble tradition the rest of the Scottish football community needs to placate.

 

The Juniors had their chance and blew it - it is up to individual clubs to come to their senses and come over to a structured set up where fans are treated with as much respect as players & expect more for their money than watching overpaid hasbeens and never will bes on a bit of badly rolled spare ground next to a mudhut.

Entmoot? you really are a dick.

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It all still revolves around the bogus notion that the SFA has to negotiate with the SJFA as an equal to make anything happen. If the SFA wants to do it all affiliated national associations like the SJFA can be disaffiliated with the clubs and leagues told to register directly with the SFA instead. If they were serious about a pyramid that would have been the first step.

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It all still revolves around the bogus notion that the SFA has to negotiate with the SJFA as an equal to make anything happen. If the SFA wants to do it all affiliated national associations like the SJFA can be disaffiliated with the clubs and leagues told to register directly with the SFA instead. If they were serious about a pyramid that would have been the first step.

It's easy for us to say that would have been the best step without considering the politics and history etc. That's 160 clubs and their supporters and backers that you would be alienating by taking such a stance.

I'd hazard a guess that if they decided to do that there would be a few clubs who would say no and potentially disappear as clubs. The sfa has to safeguard the game too so wouldn't be a good idea for them to decrease the number of adult players and those involved in the game by potentially forcing some clubs out of existence.

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It's easy for us to say that would have been the best step without considering the politics and history etc. That's 160 clubs and their supporters and backers that you would be alienating by taking such a stance.

 

If they kept the three regions intact and had them affiliate directly to the SFA in the same way the EoS and SoS leagues do and had an SFA committee with members drawn from the three regions run the Junior Cup, I doubt most people would notice the difference. The three regions do most of the work and relatively little is done at the SJFA level.

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If they kept the three regions intact and had them affiliate directly to the SFA in the same way the EoS and SoS leagues do and had an SFA committee with members drawn from the three regions run the Junior Cup, I doubt most people would notice the difference. The three regions do most of the work and relatively little is done at the SJFA level.

But how would they then fit into the pyramid? Or are you essentially suggesting that the sfa runs the junior game as the sjfa does and they just stay as separate leagues to the pyramid ones? This would be the one where most folk wouldn't notice, but how does that help move things forward?

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The three regions then fit into the pyramid the same way the EoS and SoS leagues do. It's not rocket science. Any of the 160 clubs could get licensed if they meet the criteria and would have to accept promotion or playoff entry to the next tier up if they were ever to be superleague champions, if progression was still going to be compulsory. The point you are missing is that the SJFA does almost nothing for its member clubs. It runs the Junior Cup and a semi-pro national team that sometimes plays against the RoI, NI and the Isle of Man, and that's pretty much it. Beyond that everything is run by the three regions in much the same way the EoS and SoS league setups run their own affairs as part of the SFA.

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The three regions then fit into the pyramid the same way the EoS and SoS leagues do. It's not rocket science. Any of the 160 clubs could get licensed if they meet the criteria and would have to accept promotion or playoff entry to the next tier up if they were ever to be superleague champions, if progression was still going to be compulsory. The point you are missing is that the SJFA does almost nothing for its member clubs. It runs the Junior Cup and a semi-pro national team that sometimes plays against the RoI, NI and the Isle of Man, and that's pretty much it. Beyond that everything is run by the three regions in much the same way the EoS and SoS league setups run their own affairs as part of the SFA.

I'm not missing that point at all. The ongoing discussion is that the sfa should just pull the juniors into their set up- I'm saying that it can't be as simple as that. If they did that they'd alienate and upset a lot of football folk, losing valuable resources to the game in this country.

Although I will add that there were a lot of dissenting voices when the super league ideas were originally voiced, and examples of teams not wanting to do well in their own leagues so that they didn't have to qualify for them. That's all changed now though so could see the same shift once its implemented.

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If my comments have upset you Burnie_man tough, after all it’s a forum and like football it’s all about opinions.     

 

Why on earth would I be upset? just pointing out that this sort of attitude holds our game back.  Same with the attitude of many in the Junior game.

 

Its oor ba and ye cannae play wi it.

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I have outlined a scenario under which the three regions would continue as is and the Junior Cup would continue as is. Who would be alienated and outraged by that? Probably only Tom Johnstone as he would lose his cushy well-paid job and office at Hampden, and a few other officials that would lose their blazers, but not the vast majority of participants and spectators.

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I have outlined a scenario under which the three regions would continue as is and the Junior Cup would continue as is. Who would be alienated and outraged by that? Probably only Tom Johnstone as he would lose his cushy well-paid job and office at Hampden, and a few other officials that would lose their blazers, but not the vast majority of participants and spectators.

What would be the point in the sfa running the junior game under exactly the same set up as they are currently being run? If the sfa took it over it would be to integrate into the pyramid and would therefore make up feeder leagues to the lowland and highland. This would then mean that those junior sides who didn't want part of it would be pretty upset by it would they not?

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I'm explaining how it can be done with minimal disruption, if the SFA are serious about a pyramid. All that's needed to integrate the three regions into a wider pyramid is an agreement on the pro/rel mechanism to whatever is perceived to be the higher tier, similar to what is already in place with the EoS and SoS leagues. If the compulsory progression angle were dropped, so superleague champions could opt to stay in the juniors in a similar way to how Northern League clubs in England frequently give promotion the body swerve and similar to what most Highland League clubs would prefer in Scotland, I suspect it could happen quite quickly even with the SJFA remaining fully intact as an affiliated association.

Edited by LongTimeLurker

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Ring Ring

 

“Hi Tom, Stewart here. Listen, off the record, the other SFA Board members have had a wee chat and want to stop allocating our referees to SJFA matches as from next season as we’re suffering a bit of a referee shortage. Why not pop upstairs for a coffee and custard cream and we’ll have a wee chat about Pyramids and such like and see if we can work something outâ€.

 

SJFA EGM called next day.

 

The power is there is the SFA want it.

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Ring Ring

 

“Hi Tom, Stewart here. Listen, off the record, the other SFA Board members have had a wee chat and want to stop allocating our referees to SJFA matches as from next season as we’re suffering a bit of a referee shortage. Why not pop upstairs for a coffee and custard cream and we’ll have a wee chat about Pyramids and such like and see if we can work something outâ€.

 

SJFA EGM called next day.

 

The power is there is the SFA want it.

You have a list of the board members and for the majority of whom the pyramid is far from their collective minds.  Let someone co-ordinate and start the lobbying process (any volunteers?).  Find out the views of each individual board members and start the debate with them.

 

If there are enough fans pestering them to get the pyramid on the agenda, then perhaps something will get done. Otherwise they will still believe that not many people really care (perhaps they are correct).  If the only voice from the juniors that the majority of the board members hear is Tom Johnston, and we can all guess what we is telling them?

 

Instead of moaning that the SFA are doing nothing about it, you and like-minded junior fans start doing something yourselves.  The SFA are, after all, the custodians of our game.  They are here to serve the fans :P

Edited by Cicero

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You have a list of the board members and for the majority of whom the pyramid is far from their collective minds.  Let someone co-ordinate and start the lobbying process (any volunteers?).  Find out the views of each individual board members and start the debate with them.

 

If there are enough fans pestering them to get the pyramid on the agenda, then perhaps something will get done. Otherwise they will still believe that not many people really care (perhaps they are correct).  If the only voice from the juniors that the majority of the board members hear is Tom Johnston, and we can all guess what we is telling them?

 

Instead of moaning that the SFA are doing nothing about it, you and like-minded junior fans start doing something yourselves.  The SFA are, after all, the custodians of our game.  They are here to serve the fans :P

 

Aye, because that would work, the SFA listen to fans, not!  They do, however, read these boards.

 

The only way change will come is if the SFA want it (or the SJFA for that matter), I can't see either happening, even though, I as illustrated above, there is a fairly simple way to bring TJ & Co to the negotiating table if they really wanted to, but I don't think they do.

 

As has been alluded to already, 100 new clubs from the Junior ranks signing up tips the balance of power and terrifies the SFA and its current Senior members.

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Aye, because that would work, the SFA listen to fans, not!  They do, however, read these boards.

 

The only way change will come is if the SFA want it (or the SJFA for that matter), I can't see either happening, even though, I as illustrated above, there is a fairly simple way to bring TJ & Co to the negotiating table if they really wanted to, but I don't think they do.

 

As has been alluded to already, 100 new clubs from the Junior ranks signing up tips the balance of power and terrifies the SFA and its current Senior members.

 

It can't hurt to ask the question, you will never know until you do.  If you just sit on your hands and do nothing, you are becoming just as guilty as the SFA.  Only when you have tried, you can then criticise the SFA for their inactivity.

 

One email written to each board member will take minutes.  Report back your findings on here with the reply from each member of the board.  If they do read these message boards, perhaps they will take notice.  As I said before, If enough of you pester them, then perhaps something will get done.

Edited by Cicero

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Aye, because that would work, the SFA listen to fans, not!  They do, however, read these boards.

 

The only way change will come is if the SFA want it (or the SJFA for that matter), I can't see either happening, even though, I as illustrated above, there is a fairly simple way to bring TJ & Co to the negotiating table if they really wanted to, but I don't think they do.

 

As has been alluded to already, 100 new clubs from the Junior ranks signing up tips the balance of power and terrifies the SFA and its current Senior members.

What steaming bullshit - this typifies the "wha's lik' us?" delusional beliefs within Junior ranks thinking themselves a bigger deal than they really are that have been the bane of non-league progress for so long.

 

Do you seriously believe that once part of an all inclusive set up, all those ex-Junior clubs are going to be some sort of united front? They can't even unite amongst themselves just now - a squabbling rabble of smalltown smallminders concerned with their own self interests and precious little else bar the status quo insofar as it suits them. The current distasteful circle jerk from far too many gleeful opposition fans over Irvine Meadow's predicament is certainly testimony to what a myth any notions of "special comradeship" amongst Junior clubs are, no matter what any sentimentalists may claim.

 

The second any of them are in any sort of united non-league set up, they'll be seeking friends amongst the new "big kids" in the playground like Spartans & touting for favours that can help them put one over their old "friends": and don't kid yourself it will be anything else.

 

It can't hurt to ask the question, you will never know until you do.  If you just sit on your hands and do nothing, you are becoming just as guilty as the SFA.  Only when you have tried, you can then criticise the SFA for their inactivity.

 

One email written to each board member will take minutes.  Report back your findings on here with the reply from each member of the board.  If they do read these message boards, perhaps they will take notice.  As I said before, If enough of you pester them, then perhaps something will get done.

But they're not going to do that, are they? You know it, I know it, we all know it.

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