Weesiecodal Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1456849608.407161.jpg Now the SNP's Mhairi Black MSP wore a 'Free Palestine' t-shirt in Holyrood (can't find the pic). No problem there....do it at the football though and this is the reaction from Police. The SNP can show support for Palestine and it's no problem....do it at the football though... Kenny McAskill wants to honour one of the leaders of the Irish Easter 1916 uprising...Edinburgh man, James Connolly. Sing his praises inside a football ground though and you can end up with a conviction. These are just a couple of basic stories examples. There are loads more. I'm sure if you contact FAC they will provide you with even more which will have you shaking your head. ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1456849879.226298.jpg ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1456849892.744069.jpg See, for me, this post highlights the problem perfectly. The majority of Scottish FOOTBALL fans go to stadia around the country to watch a GAME OF FOOTBALL between two teams, kicking a leather bag of air around, trying to get said ball into the oppositions onion bag, whilst the other team tries to prevent this from happening and do the same to the opposition. The majority of Scottish football fans, that is, who follow their local team, or maybe the team they have family connections with. The majority of Scottish football fans go to games to cheer on their team, have a day out with their mates, and enjoy the spectacle (hmmm) of the game on display. Why, oh why, oh why would you want to go to a football match to sing songs about long dead political figures that have nothing to do with football, or discuss Palastinial/Israeli issues, etc? What has this got to do with football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milnzo Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Only if you look at the picture I have posted of Rangers, Aberdeen, St Johnstone, Motherwell, Partick Thistle & Hibs fans to name a few, protesting against this act, then you will see what you have said is bollocks. It has even had the Tartan Army hold a banner up in protest too! That Aberdeen fans in that pic are a bunch of tinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Why, oh why, oh why would you want to go to a football match to sing songs about long dead political figures that have nothing to do with football, or discuss Palastinial/Israeli issues, etc? What has this got to do with football? Was about to post similar. It would appear certain sections of fans go to games, not to support their team or watch football, but simply as an excuse to engage in bammery. Possibly over-simplifying things, but people are aware of prohibited acts and indulging in them will have a consequence. If Police ask you to desist, kicking-off is unlikely to result in a positive outcome. This would be my default position. That said, I have observed disproportionate and possibly inappropriate responses by the authorities at times. On the other side, I dont think it helps when the Police are not consistent in their approach with regards to certain supports either. I have stood at Ibrox and been hit by a lighter and two coins - in one instance with a Police officer next to me, only for him to completely disregard it, whilst at the same time threatening action against those around me who were irate about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 So it would seem that 2 people (one going to a football match and one going somewhere else) sitting together on a train or bus, could say or do something exactly the same but only the football fan would be apprehended? Is that what the Act says? This. 'Bad behaviour' has been in decline in football for decades and, by 2012, football was very safe and abuse-free (largely). There may have been the vestiges of a singing problem but that is/was trivial and is/was an implementation issue rather than an issue of law. 'Breach' still needs to show there was a peace issue for a successful prosecution. This act simply needs someone to say that a 'reasonable person' could think something offensive whether any 'reasonable person' witnessed said offense or not. It's like doing someone for assault for shadow boxing This. Why, oh why, oh why would you want to go to a football match to sing songs about long dead political figures that have nothing to do with football, or discuss Palastinial/Israeli issues, etc? What has this got to do with football? Look, I don't understand why anyone would want to do that either, but that's not a reason for criminalising those who do it. That's at most a reason for football clubs to ban them from their grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Erm yes - but the sole reason why the state stepped in was because the SFA and the clubs who ultimately operate the league system have been entirely unwilling to bring forward meaningful sporting punishments for fan misdemeanours. No stadium bans, no points deductions are acceptable in the Scottish game; the clubs encouraged the state to take criminal action instead. Few of the current advocates for reforming the law actually have any interest in curbing scumbag behaviour with reasonable measures; they're just interested in ending any measures taken against scumbag behaviour. Which is why the twin bigots are leading the charge, as well as roaster Celtic fans like Jeanette Findlay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Erm yes - but the sole reason why the state stepped in was because the SFA and the clubs who ultimately operate the league system have been entirely unwilling to bring forward meaningful sporting punishments for fan misdemeanours. No stadium bans, no points deductions are acceptable in the Scottish game; the clubs encouraged the state to take criminal action instead. If the SFA and clubs don't step-in to introduce sporting punishments for things that shouldn't in any case be crimes, that's not a fiat for the state massively to overreact and still not actually do anything meaningful to tackle the social problem. Has this legislation even reduced the preponderance of sectarian singing at Ibrox or Parkhead? No. They give it laldy just as much as they did before. It's just a stick with which Police Scotland have set about demonising supporters virtually at random for being part of a crowd that's singing songs with offensive words or themes in them, regardless of whether the tenor of the song is sectarian or something else and totally ignoring whether the football fans in question posed a threat to anyone. There are several other ways that both government and legislation could force the SFA or clubs' hands on this, insofar as they should do so at all, which are less intrusive than to criminalise fans over and above the existence of breach of the peace. It is not the role of the Scottish Government to remedy the defects of how the SFA handles the non-criminal conduct of third parties any more than it is their role to pass legislation to criminalise littering because Glasgow City Council is inefficient at cleaning up Sauchiehall Street on a Saturday morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Well actually champ, when football fans are sending nail bombs in the post to opposition managers and the Scottish football authorities specifically call for the punishment of individuals rather than the clubs being held responsible, then the state absolutely should have stepped in, and were willed by the footballing authorities to do so. A minority of football fans do commit acts that wouldn't be acceptable in other environments and the existing laws weren't being applied. The correct solution would be to bring in serious liability for clubs when their fans act like scumbags and only then to repeal the law. Not before Scottish football clubs take responsibility though, and not as a vehicle for sectarian bigots to get off scot-free. Yet the pressure on the SPFL to implement proper punishments for fan misdemeanours is non-existent in this campaign; funny that. Incidentally as someone in a crowd "singing songs", I've never noticed Police Scotland taking outrageous action. Even when, after our effective title decider last season, they patrolled the train up from Stranraer, they turned a blind eye to the carryouts and turfed out only a couple of fannies who didn't normally go to games and were looking for aggro. The idea that Police Scotland are some sort of Stasi-esque organisation picking on guid honest fans is wide of the mark IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarbsIsMagic Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Have to laugh at the Sheep Warriors taking the moral high ground here. A section of their support is one of the scummiest in the country. The worst trouble I've seen at a Scottish football match was when they tried to attack the Louden Tavern on the Copland Rd a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Well actually champ, when football fans are sending nail bombs in the post to opposition managers and the Scottish football authorities specifically call for the punishment of individuals rather than the clubs being held responsible, then the state absolutely should have stepped in, and were willed by the footballing authorities to do so. A minority of football fans do commit acts that wouldn't be acceptable in other environments and the existing laws weren't being applied. The correct solution would be to bring in serious liability for clubs when their fans act like scumbags and only then to repeal the law. Not before Scottish football clubs take responsibility though, and not as a vehicle for sectarian bigots to get off scot-free. Yet the pressure on the SPFL to implement proper punishments for fan misdemeanours is non-existent in this campaign; funny that. Incidentally as someone in a crowd "singing songs", I've never noticed Police Scotland taking outrageous action. Even when, after our effective title decider last season, they patrolled the train up from Stranraer, they turned a blind eye to the carryouts and turfed out only a couple of fannies who didn't normally go to games and were looking for aggro. The idea that Police Scotland are some sort of Stasi-esque organisation picking on guid honest fans is wide of the mark IMO. So did you and your mate get home alright then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer Jag Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Have to laugh at the Sheep Warriors taking the moral high ground here. A section of their support is one of the scummiest in the country. The worst trouble I've seen at a Scottish football match was when they tried to attack the Louden Tavern on the Copland Rd a few years ago. Whataboutery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 That was the point he made. Calling someone that on the way to a football match would be cretinous behaviour, and he (like the majority of others) wouldn't do that. Cretinism is an illness. I think that was the point of Ross' post. It is akin to calling someone a "Swampy" or a "spastic". Those names would find you on the wrong side of the act.I see someone has been adjusting the swear filter. Quite funny but if you called Swampy that at a football match...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveThePirate Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Davie is fast becoming my favourite P&B poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotSquid Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Surely no one read beyond the comical 'good article by Jeanette Findlay' claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Surely no one read beyond the comical 'good article by Jeanette Findlay' claim? My thoughts precisely. The sign of a troll if ever there was one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davie Bhoy Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 Have to laugh at the Sheep Warriors taking the moral high ground here. A section of their support is one of the scummiest in the country. The worst trouble I've seen at a Scottish football match was when they tried to attack the Louden Tavern on the Copland Rd a few years ago. So you seen it? I'm waiting on the....'ah but have you got proof' brigade turning up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davie Bhoy Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 Whataboutery. Can't address the point so I'll just shout 'whataboutery' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Have to laugh at the Sheep Warriors taking the moral high ground here. A section of their support is one of the scummiest in the country. The worst trouble I've seen at a Scottish football match was when they tried to attack the Louden Tavern on the Copland Rd a few years ago. So you seen it? I'm waiting on the....'ah but have you got proof' brigade turning up. Two cheeks of the same arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Can't address the point so I'll just shout 'whataboutery' So we've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Have to laugh at the Sheep Warriors taking the moral high ground here. A section of their support is one of the scummiest in the country. The worst trouble I've seen at a Scottish football match was when they tried to attack the Louden Tavern on the Copland Rd a few years ago. So you seen it? I'm waiting on the....'ah but have you got proof' brigade turning up. Two cheeks of the same arse. Two arses, more like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davie Bhoy Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 Two cheeks of the same arse. Quite ironic since any non-Celtic or Rangers fan seems to gang up to attack posters from those two clubs. Hypocritical perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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