Wee Willie Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 i want the lords removed tbh I want them parboiled, battered & skewered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotad Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I want them parboiled, battered & skewered. lil extreme but i get what you mean ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Scotland's elected first minister requests that the referendum wait until well after the Holyrood elections. David Cameron ignores her. So much for the "respect agenda". Still think we're a partnership of equals, folks? Am sure the SNP will play the westminster is not respecting scotland card again,i would be shocked if they did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Am sure the SNP will play the westminster is not respecting scotland card again,i would be shocked if they did not.Quite right too kev,i thought we were a valued member of the equal union but looks like nothings getting in the way of the tory party meltdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Quite right too kev,i thought we were a valued member of the equal union but looks like nothings getting in the way of the tory party meltdown 7 weeks between votes dont see what the issue is with that. As for the campaigns dont see why they cant both run side by side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 What the hell; this twunt on Daily Politics Scotland who's a "major donor" of Labour Leave has just had a banner over him saying "Live: London or Oxford". ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 7 weeks between votes dont see what the issue is with that. As for the campaigns dont see why they cant both run side by side. Thats just nonesense kev and if you have been campaigning you would know it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotSquid Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Surely the operation of international law in respect of the UK would have to look at the act of Union? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I'm very much undecided. Instinct says remain; I want closer relations with Europe. But the EU is one of the leading proponents of neoliberalism on the planet. The thing is corrupt to its very core. You only have to look at the ttip stuff to see that. Yeah, it's a pretty bizarre position those of us who aren't right-wingers find ourselves in. I fully believe in an integrated Europe, but for all the benefits of the EU in that regard it's a rampantly neo-liberal institution which values privatisation and shrinking the size of government above all else, meaning member states have had all manner of right-wing free market shite forced upon them. With that in mind you'd think leaving would be the best thing to do to escape the ideological crusade for the destruction of the state but perversely, despite the slavish devotion to neo-liberalism, the EU is the only thing protecting us from the worst excesses of an ideologically driven UK government who are such dangerous zealots they're actually cartoonish. Quite simply we're at the mercy of right-wing nutters either way, but we're marginally less fucked if we stay in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotSquid Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Successor/continuator states are down to political expediency as much as any form of principles. Its incredibly simplistic, perhaps wrong, to talk about precedent as there are so many exceptions to these precedents. Would Scotland be seceding from the UK or would we be dissolving the UK? I'm tempted to say you could make the case that Scotland was leaving and the united kingdom of England & northern Ireland was a legitimate continuator. So, would Scotland have to reapply to the EU? IMO Yes. Its not wrong in any way to talk about precedent given every single analogous precedent tells you exactly what the international law consequences would be of a small chunk of a much larger entity choosing to secede. Why are you 'tempted' to come to a conclusion that is the only possible one? You are correct that Scotland would have to apply as a new member however. It would completely depend on how aggressive the Indy timeline was as to whether this would be ratified in time for Indy day. The fact individual member nations have their own domestic hurdles to cross in terms of approving an expansion would be the most obvious hold up. IScotland being accepted as a new member would be beyond doubt and entirely uncontentious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 At the moment I'm probably 50/50, or possibly nearer 60/40 for Out. I sort of like the idea of free movement across borders, but the last few years have shown the huge difficulties that can throw up. I sort of like the idea of a single currency, but again, the crash in 2008 has shown the difficulties that can throw up. Tying the British Standards up with the European standards for things also makes sense. However, someone would have to spell out clearly what the consequences of a No vote would be. Not in a 'Aaaaaaa! We're doomed if we vote No!' kind of way, or I'll just vote No to spite them. What are the main benefits to the likes of me, John Prole in the street? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 We won the war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I see the Out campaign GO! has got George Galloway on board now - that's the Out campaign lost before it has even started. And how nice to see Tiddles happy all of a sudden to share a platform with Nigel Farage! Just what the Out campaign required to get the public interest on a Sunday morning - a big colour picture of a pair of massive tits. It's so obvious they fancy themselves to be the new Tony Benn and Enoch Powell of this whole affair, except that Tony Benn and Enoch Powell wrote books whilst these two twats only colour them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Date to be confirmed after Cabinet meeting this morning: 23 June 2016. Good that we have a date for it now, but I honestly couldn't give a monkeys if we stay or go. You can see the general air of 'meh' most people have for Europe at the European Parliament elections. The turnout for those elections gives the game away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effeffsee_the2nd Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Yeah, it's a pretty bizarre position those of us who aren't right-wingers find ourselves in. I fully believe in an integrated Europe, but for all the benefits of the EU in that regard it's a rampantly neo-liberal institution which values privatisation and shrinking the size of government above all else, meaning member states have had all manner of right-wing free market shite forced upon them. With that in mind you'd think leaving would be the best thing to do to escape the ideological crusade for the destruction of the state but perversely, despite the slavish devotion to neo-liberalism, the EU is the only thing protecting us from the worst excesses of an ideologically driven UK government who are such dangerous zealots they're actually cartoonish. Quite simply we're at the mercy of right-wing nutters either way, but we're marginally less fucked if we stay in. independent scotland outside the EU, f**k evetycvnt else! thats what id like, ken im in a minority tho. also this thread = "is not" "is too" "IS NOT" "IS TOO" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Its not wrong in any way to talk about precedent given every single analogous precedent tells you exactly what the international law consequences would be of a small chunk of a much larger entity choosing to secede. Why are you 'tempted' to come to a conclusion that is the only possible one? I was making the point that it is absolutely not as simple as saying " the big bit" always carries on. I have given you two examples of where the larger chunk was not the continuing state. In one case where both parties chose to have no continuing state and in another where the original state was found to have been dissolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotad Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Yeah, it's a pretty bizarre position those of us who aren't right-wingers find ourselves in. I fully believe in an integrated Europe, but for all the benefits of the EU in that regard it's a rampantly neo-liberal institution which values privatisation and shrinking the size of government above all else, meaning member states have had all manner of right-wing free market shite forced upon them. With that in mind you'd think leaving would be the best thing to do to escape the ideological crusade for the destruction of the state but perversely, despite the slavish devotion to neo-liberalism, the EU is the only thing protecting us from the worst excesses of an ideologically driven UK government who are such dangerous zealots they're actually cartoonish. Quite simply we're at the mercy of right-wing nutters either way, but we're marginally less fucked if we stay in. Yeah, it's a pretty bizarre position those of us who aren't right-wingers find ourselves in. I fully believe in an integrated Europe, but for all the benefits of the EU in that regard it's a rampantly neo-liberal institution which values privatisation and shrinking the size of government above all else, meaning member states have had all manner of right-wing free market shite forced upon them. With that in mind you'd think leaving would be the best thing to do to escape the ideological crusade for the destruction of the state but perversely, despite the slavish devotion to neo-liberalism, the EU is the only thing protecting us from the worst excesses of an ideologically driven UK government who are such dangerous zealots they're actually cartoonish. Quite simply we're at the mercy of right-wing nutters either way, but we're marginally less fucked if we stay in. Shrinking our government in favor of a EU government is a stupid thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotad Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I see the Out campaign GO! has got George Galloway on board now - that's the Out campaign lost before it has even started. And how nice to see Tiddles happy all of a sudden to share a platform with Nigel Farage! Just what the Out campaign required to get the public interest on a Sunday morning - a big colour picture of a pair of massive tits. It's so obvious they fancy themselves to be the new Tony Benn and Enoch Powell of this whole affair, except that Tony Benn and Enoch Powell wrote books whilst these two twats only colour them in. Meanwhile in has Jeremy corbyn,tony blair, all the banks.., also they show this picture but he was with labour,tories also, but people are not 2 bright .. they hate each other if you do some re search but this is more then personal issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orlandoblue Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I think information on this will be impossible to find. It will be rhetoric . No one has any idea what impact it would have on the UK economy, positive or negative, if we leave. I'm pretty torn. I despise the neoliberal anti-democratic corrupt disgrace that is the EU. So I'm naturally an Out sympathiser. But will being in some sort of limbo trade partnership without voting rights be better? Doesn't seem so. I think its a really difficult one. I agree. I just hope that however difficult getting information is , that the debate revolves around issues and not personalities or party politics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotad Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I agree. I just hope that however difficult getting information is , that the debate revolves around issues and not personalities or party politics it will be a bit of both but people will need to do their own actual research and watch the EU debates which are already online etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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