Why is Shitebaggery a national trait in Scotland?

[dorlomin]

Evident in Football, Rugby and Politics

I have been round the world and almost everywhere I go Scottish people are seen in a very positive light. Countries like New Zealand and Canada who have over bearing neighbours, identify with our ability to carve out an independent identity, people from Japan and Germany have commentated on our strong history of science and industrial development saying Scotland has been seen as a pioneer in those fields, I have met South Africans and Sikh Indians who say they have admired our warrior spirit. Almost everywhere I have gone I have met people who are very positive about Scotland.

Modern Scotland faces many of the same "post industrial" problems of the US rust belt and large parts of Europe. Inside or outside the Union we will be in the same macro economic model as the rest of Europe and the developed world. Perhaps outside we can carve a more "mittelstadt" and knowledge based economy. But the ragging out on Scotland out of bitterness because you did not get your wishes in a vote is the kind of petulant pish that turns people off nationalism in a big way.

Instead of tipping over the games board in a fit of petulance and blaming everyone else for not being as "clever" as you, i.e. not voting for what you wanted, why do you not spend more time trying to work out what it was with what was on offer that people were unconvinced by and strengthening that part of your package? You and several other people round here seem to be in a permanent tantrum that people did not do what you told them. Have you ever considered the crazy idea of listening to people?

[Alan Stubbs]

"our warrior spirit"

[bob the tank]

"our warrior spirit"

Devils in skirts remember...

[RedRob72]

I have been round the world and almost everywhere I go Scottish people are seen in a very positive light. Countries like New Zealand and Canada who have over bearing neighbours, identify with our ability to carve out an independent identity, people from Japan and Germany have commentated on our strong history of science and industrial development saying Scotland has been seen as a pioneer in those fields, I have met South Africans and Sikh Indians who say they have admired our warrior spirit. Almost everywhere I have gone I have met people who are very positive about Scotland.

Modern Scotland faces many of the same "post industrial" problems of the US rust belt and large parts of Europe. Inside or outside the Union we will be in the same macro economic model as the rest of Europe and the developed world. Perhaps outside we can carve a more "mittelstadt" and knowledge based economy. But the ragging out on Scotland out of bitterness because you did not get your wishes in a vote is the kind of petulant pish that turns people off nationalism in a big way.

Instead of tipping over the games board in a fit of petulance and blaming everyone else for not being as "clever" as you, i.e. not voting for what you wanted, why do you not spend more time trying to work out what it was with what was on offer that people were unconvinced by and strengthening that part of your package? You and several other people round here seem to be in a permanent tantrum that people did not do what you told them. Have you ever considered the crazy idea of listening to people?

It's a great post. The only Scots who claim this 'shitebag ' nonsense are those who feel and recognise it most in themselves. That level of insecurity must be crippling.

[Glenn Medeiros]

It's a great post. The only Scots who claim this 'shitebag ' nonsense are those who feel and recognise it most in themselves. That level of insecurity must be crippling.

Imagine not being in favour of empowering Scotland, then pretending you are not insecure, and full of belief in Scotland

Anyone that voted No entrusted Westminister, others believed in Scotland.

[doulikefish]

Love a jld thread

[RedRob72]

Imagine not being in favour of empowering Scotland, then pretending you are not insecure, and full of belief in Scotland

Anyone that voted No entrusted Westminister, others believed in Scotland.

I've read and re-read your post, it still doesn't make sense. I'm sure it must to you though. Confidence, security and self belief are not in question for me, read the OP again, I think it's your issue.

[1320Lichtie]

I have been round the world and almost everywhere I go Scottish people are seen in a very positive light. Countries like New Zealand and Canada who have over bearing neighbours, identify with our ability to carve out an independent identity, people from Japan and Germany have commentated on our strong history of science and industrial development saying Scotland has been seen as a pioneer in those fields, I have met South Africans and Sikh Indians who say they have admired our warrior spirit. Almost everywhere I have gone I have met people who are very positive about Scotland.

Modern Scotland faces many of the same "post industrial" problems of the US rust belt and large parts of Europe. Inside or outside the Union we will be in the same macro economic model as the rest of Europe and the developed world. Perhaps outside we can carve a more "mittelstadt" and knowledge based economy. But the ragging out on Scotland out of bitterness because you did not get your wishes in a vote is the kind of petulant pish that turns people off nationalism in a big way.

Instead of tipping over the games board in a fit of petulance and blaming everyone else for not being as "clever" as you, i.e. not voting for what you wanted, why do you not spend more time trying to work out what it was with what was on offer that people were unconvinced by and strengthening that part of your package? You and several other people round here seem to be in a permanent tantrum that people did not do what you told them. Have you ever considered the crazy idea of listening to people?

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I have been round the world and almost everywhere I go Scottish people are seen in a very positive light. Countries like New Zealand and Canada who have over bearing neighbours, identify with our ability to carve out an independent identity, people from Japan and Germany have commentated on our strong history of science and industrial development saying Scotland has been seen as a pioneer in those fields, I have met South Africans and Sikh Indians who say they have admired our warrior spirit. Almost everywhere I have gone I have met people who are very positive about Scotland.

Modern Scotland faces many of the same "post industrial" problems of the US rust belt and large parts of Europe. Inside or outside the Union we will be in the same macro economic model as the rest of Europe and the developed world. Perhaps outside we can carve a more "mittelstadt" and knowledge based economy. But the ragging out on Scotland out of bitterness because you did not get your wishes in a vote is the kind of petulant pish that turns people off nationalism in a big way.

Instead of tipping over the games board in a fit of petulance and blaming everyone else for not being as "clever" as you, i.e. not voting for what you wanted, why do you not spend more time trying to work out what it was with what was on offer that people were unconvinced by and strengthening that part of your package? You and several other people round here seem to be in a permanent tantrum that people did not do what you told them. Have you ever considered the crazy idea of listening to people?

Lovely post I'm sure, but probably not taken seriously by anyone who remembers your utterly comical spittle-flecked breakdown after the GE.

[Hillonearth]

What exactly is the Orange Order the voice of in Scotland?

[John Lambies Doos]

Imagine not being in favour of empowering Scotland, then pretending you are not insecure, and full of belief in Scotland

Anyone that voted No entrusted Westminister, others believed in Scotland.

This, Good Post

[Kyle]

I have been round the world and almost everywhere I go Scottish people are seen in a very positive light. Countries like New Zealand and Canada who have over bearing neighbours, identify with our ability to carve out an independent identity, people from Japan and Germany have commentated on our strong history of science and industrial development saying Scotland has been seen as a pioneer in those fields, I have met South Africans and Sikh Indians who say they have admired our warrior spirit. Almost everywhere I have gone I have met people who are very positive about Scotland.

Modern Scotland faces many of the same "post industrial" problems of the US rust belt and large parts of Europe. Inside or outside the Union we will be in the same macro economic model as the rest of Europe and the developed world. Perhaps outside we can carve a more "mittelstadt" and knowledge based economy. But the ragging out on Scotland out of bitterness because you did not get your wishes in a vote is the kind of petulant pish that turns people off nationalism in a big way.

Instead of tipping over the games board in a fit of petulance and blaming everyone else for not being as "clever" as you, i.e. not voting for what you wanted, why do you not spend more time trying to work out what it was with what was on offer that people were unconvinced by and strengthening that part of your package? You and several other people round here seem to be in a permanent tantrum that people did not do what you told them. Have you ever considered the crazy idea of listening to people?

I remember no voters on facebook going on about how voting no was the 'patriotic choice'.

I actually agree with a lot of this post, particularly the last paragraph , but I can't fathom why anyone would vote against Independence for their nation if they really believe what you've typed above. Dare I say it - a lot of no voters decided to vote that way purely because they identify themselves as British, making their 'Nationalist' quips against Yes voters completely redundant. Some voted yes for precisely the same reasons in the opposite context too, but in my experience they're much more happy to admit that.

I saw the referendum as a massive opportunity for Scotland to carve our own path,our own economy, and decide our view of the world for ourselves, most of which we can't really do in the confines of the Union. The vision presented by the SNP/Greens wasn't really my vision for an independent Scotland, but they were obviously fronting the yes campaign and I was (and still am) happy to back them whilst we remain in the UK. I have absolutely no respect for the likes of Labour and the Lib Dems, who are now shying away from their role in the no campaign, naively believing they'll get yes voters back on side. Can't say I like the Tories much, but at least they stand by their Unionism, carrying the flag for no voters and acknowledging that's where their support base stems from. The constitution is still the big ticket item in Scottish politics and that's the way it's going to be from now on. Labour and the Lib Dems can try and avoid the subject, but their support base will only continue to dwindle while they do.

I completely disagree with calling people shitebags or quislings or whatever other insult some wish to hurl at no voters. They're not - they voted in a way they would benefit themselves, their family or their country. That attitude only hardens no voters' views making it much more difficult to win them round. There's obviously an element that would vote no regardless of any other factors, but there's plenty out there who would vote yes in the right circumstances - I can't see the logic in chasing those types away.

[Antlion]

A sensible, reasonable post, Kyle. But I think it's beyond question that no "patriotic Scot" voted against Scotland's national statehood, however much they might claim otherwise. There's nothing inherently good or bad about patriotism, but every person who voted for the preservation of UK statehood is perforce a patriotic Briton, not a patriotic Scot. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing in itself. In fact, it's an understandable thing given that no one alive has any experience of a sovereign Scotland, but all of us living here have experience (good or bad) of a sovereign UK. Hell, even Scotland's devolved parliament with no sovereignty and very little power in comparison to our sovereign parliament in our state's capital city of London is less than two decades old.

Similarly, no Portuguese man or woman who wishes the sovereign Portuguese parliament dissolved and for Portugal to be incorporated into a United States of Iberia with Spain, governed and financed from Madrid (with the larger number of Spanish voters choosing its governments), could be called a "Portuguese patriot". They might be an Iberian patriot in the event of this new nation state coming into being, but not a Portuguese patriot. The very idea is ludicrous, and the likes of Lord Darling should have been much more volubly called out on their claims.

But calling people Quislings and traitors just for voting "no" is a mistake, and likely only to get them to dig in their heels and continue to reject the idea of Scottish sovereignty. It's not the public's fault they were fed out-and-out lies (in reputedly trustworthy publications and from well-known politicians) like their kids being denied blood and organs if they voted "yes".

[RedRob72]

A sensible, reasonable post, Kyle. But I think it's beyond question that no "patriotic Scot" voted against Scotland's national statehood, however much they might claim otherwise. There's nothing inherently good or bad about patriotism, but every person who voted for the preservation of UK statehood is perforce a patriotic Briton, not a patriotic Scot. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing in itself. In fact, it's an understandable thing given that no one alive has any experience of a sovereign Scotland, but all of us living here have experience (good or bad) of a sovereign UK. Hell, even Scotland's devolved parliament with no sovereignty and very little power in comparison to our sovereign parliament in our state's capital city of London is less than two decades old.

Similarly, no Portuguese man or woman who wishes the sovereign Portuguese parliament dissolved and for Portugal to be incorporated into a United States of Iberia with Spain, governed and financed from Madrid (with the larger number of Spanish voters choosing its governments), could be called a "Portuguese patriot". They might be an Iberian patriot in the event of this new nation state coming into being, but not a Portuguese patriot. The very idea is ludicrous, and the likes of Lord Darling should have been much more volubly called out on their claims.

But calling people Quislings and traitors just for voting "no" is a mistake, and likely only to get them to dig in their heels and continue to reject the idea of Scottish sovereignty. It's not the public's fault they were fed out-and-out lies (in reputedly trustworthy publications and from well-known politicians) like their kids being denied blood and organs if they voted "yes".

Kingdom of Iberia, present day south east Georgia, it bordered the Black Sea.

[Antlion]

Kingdom of Iberia, present day south east Georgia, it bordered the Black Sea.

Perhaps those patriotic Portugeuse who want Portugal to be absorbed into a new state (with the sovereign state of Portugal dissolved and the people of Spain choosing their new sovereign governments) would prefer the "United Iberian Peninsula". Or perhaps they're too busy not existing, since no patriotic Portuguese people want Portugal absorbed into another state, or for people outside of Portugal to elect their governments for them.

[John Lambies Doos]

Imagine calling yourself a proud and patriotic Scot but voting Naw. Minter!

[RedRob72]

Perhaps those patriotic Portugeuse who want Portugal to be absorbed into a new state (with the sovereign state of Portugal dissolved and the people of Spain choosing their new sovereign governments) would prefer the "United Iberian Peninsula". Or perhaps they're too busy not existing, since no patriotic Portuguese people want Portugal absorbed into another state, or for people outside of Portugal to elect their governments for them.

It's a scenario that doesn't exist though mate, it's a hypothetical question that you have fabricated. Shall we try the Balkan Peninsula next!?

[RedRob72]

Imagine calling yourself a proud and patriotic Scot but voting Naw. Minter!

Aye Aye, we know it's the exclusive preserve of the Separatists, you've told us! Any chance of another tune?

[Antlion]

It's a scenario that doesn't exist though mate, it's a hypothetical question that you have fabricated. Shall we try the Balkan Peninsula next!?

It's a scenario that doesn't exist because no patriotic citizens of a nation want that nation to be absorbed into a larger nation in which their former neighbours pick their governments due to weight of numbers. That's why no "patriotic" Britons want what happened to Scotland to happen to the UK.

[Antlion]

Aye Aye, we know it's the exclusive preserve of the Separatists, you've told us! Any chance of another tune?

To be fair the regionalists can be proud and patriotic, but their patriotism is of the nation state of the UK. Hence their erection for "300 years of history" and the killing of Germans.