Newbornbairn Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Lot of moaning going on just now about plastic pitches with players and managers saying they're not as good as grass. My view is a good grass pitch is always preferable but grass pitches vary throughout the season from rock hard to mud, billiard smooth to rutted field meaning players have to change their footwear and entire style of football. Plastic is a consistent known surface which only really varies between wet and dry. No divots to turn ankles, no awkward bounces to divert the ball in front of the keeper etc. What's the P&B take on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romeo Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Grass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effeffsee_the2nd Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Well i usualy play an hour a week on the big park at falkirk snd i only get injured about once a month ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 It will always be best to have a very good grass pitch, but plenty grass pitches are far from that. With 3G you get a good surface all the time. They also provide 2 clear benefits beyond that - they generate revenue for clubs, plus they help clubs work in communities by being able to use them constantly. While there may be some legitimacy in the SPFA's calls for the issue to be properly examined: it seems to me the real motivation is just wanting to put a stop to the whole thing because players "don't like them" and they assume they cause injuries. There have been studies - and wanting a moratorium until the long-term effects are clear is illogical: if you aren't playing on them, there isn't going to be anyone to study. Plus injuries happen on grass, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 A roll back of plastic pitches would be a terrible thing for football in this country IMO. During my younger days, the amount of postponements and shitty pitches we had to deal with wasted quite a lot of days and made it quite awkward. Some pitches were around but they were either the older generation stuff or just harder to access. Since moving to uni, we've had the use of the 3G pitch at Riverside and up at DISC and it's been brilliant with getting fixtures on all year. I know it's a totally different game but I've never met anyone who's struggled with playing on these surfaces more than grass. In fact, proper studies don't seem to show any link and some of them actually now show that they are actually better in preventing serious injuries. Kevin Thomson who could only play a game a week and who can't handle any impact has played a few of his games for Dundee on the surface and it's never shown to be any different. Will welcome more advanced studies and happy to be proven wrong. Obviously grass is the best surface and should be used when preferable but think these surfaces have come a long way and it's just the stigma from the pish Hamilton and Dunfermline surfaces that has kept around. I'd rather see Dundee play on one of them than the current surface we have now. EDIT: Don't mean to be dismissive but I do think a lot of it is just in the head. Steven MacLean has come out and given his views on it and how he wants to avoid playing on it but I think a lot of it is to do with his age. Since he's in his 30s, he'll have grown up with the really bad stuff and probably played quite a few games on it when he was younger. Combine that with his injury issues and you can see why he'd be naturally wary but I suspect that he'd be OK (although he's totally correct to be cautious since it's his own career). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Some of the injuries are totally avoidable, too - didn't Fyvie or Pawlett get injured on Alloa's pitch during the McGhee period as they sent him out in the wrong boots? Another point regarding player familiarity is so much training takes place on 3G nowadays, particularly with part-timers. It is a bit like the early unhappiness over playing under floodlights which rumbled on during the 1950s. They've now - except in the Juniors, tbf - become a totally accepted innovation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 We've played 6 games on artificial surfaces this season, and our record stands at: W: 6 L:0 D: 0 GF: 21 GA: 2 So for that reason, I'm all for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 I think it's got to be remembered that a lot of players and managers are thick fucks. If they were told that balls with spots on swerved more in flight they'd be blaming that for shots hitting the corner flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel hutz Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Some of the injuries are totally avoidable, too - didn't Fyvie or Pawlett get injured on Alloa's pitch during the McGhee period as they sent him out in the wrong boots? Another point regarding player familiarity is so much training takes place on 3G nowadays, particularly with part-timers. It is a bit like the early unhappiness over playing under floodlights which rumbled on during the 1950s. They've now - except in the Juniors, tbf - become a totally accepted innovation. Why is that? Considering quite a few clubs have floodlights, wouldn't it be better to use them than having them rusting there like an old bicycle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terracingtam Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Lot of moaning going on just now about plastic pitches with players and managers saying they're not as good as grass. My view is a good grass pitch is always preferable but grass pitches vary throughout the season from rock hard to mud, billiard smooth to rutted field meaning players have to change their footwear and entire style of football. Plastic is a consistent known surface which only really varies between wet and dry. No divots to turn ankles, no awkward bounces to divert the ball in front of the keeper etc. What's the P&B take on it? Tommy Wright has been moaning about 3G pitches for most of this week as he says they are inconsistent and cause injuries. This is from a manager who looks after a grass pitch at Perth which falls well below any acceptable standard but also allows his development team to play their "home games" on the 3G surface at Station Park. Double standards from Mr Wright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 It seems to be a long story and a Junior fan will probably know more about it. Things are also more liberal in the North Region, tbf. However in the East and West regions the administrations don't set midweek games between the clocks changing - and those in August / April-May-June are set at 6:45pm or similar even if floodlights are fitted - and either club can decline to play under artificial light... so the result is hardly any lit games and none Sep-Mar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwffc Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Some of the injuries are totally avoidable, too - didn't Fyvie or Pawlett get injured on Alloa's pitch during the McGhee period as they sent him out in the wrong boots? Another point regarding player familiarity is so much training takes place on 3G nowadays, particularly with part-timers. It is a bit like the early unhappiness over playing under floodlights which rumbled on during the 1950s. They've now - except in the Juniors, tbf - become a totally accepted innovation. It Was Fyvie that got injured due to him playing blades instead of studs. This is one of the injuries that is getting used to attack 3G pitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichtielegend Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I think this will be a generational issue. Right now, the players who seem to object loudest are older players, who probably didn't get exposed to artificial pitches until they were well into their careers. The problem could well be mental, as the current research is inconclusive. Give it 20 years and our league will be full of players that have played 3/4 or more of their football on artificial surfaces. With that, there will be less of a mental barrier to players and those players will also be better educated with regards to footwear etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terracingtam Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I think this will be a generational issue. Right now, the players who seem to object loudest are older players, who probably didn't get exposed to artificial pitches until they were well into their careers. The problem could well be mental, as the current research is inconclusive. Give it 20 years and our league will be full of players that have played 3/4 or more of their football on artificial surfaces. With that, there will be less of a mental barrier to players and those players will also be better educated with regards to footwear etc. Correct apart from the 20 years estimate. I would say that its around 10. The old managers will be long gone and the 10 to 15 year olds who know nothing other than 3G will rule. The game will be a faster passing game with the long ball to cut out the 25 yards of glaur, a thing of the past.. Most of the games played on Saturdays due to no postponements, hospitality full and no trecks to Stranraer on a Tuesday night, or in your case, Annan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I think games are totally different on plastic pitches, more sticky and unpredictable, ruins games a bit at times. Would prefer it if clubs could just invested jn keeping their pitches in a semi decent state, which would surely be a much lower expense. Grass > plastic always. Eta: surely people that play on them here feel the difference to their bodies after playing a competitive game on plastic too? Like a tin man for days. Joints take a beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel hutz Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I remember playing J League at Gussie Park on the old 2G there, that was fucking horrible. No professional games should have been played on that surface.However, in the 8-10 years since I last played on astroturf it has improved massively. I played last week at the Uni pitch in St Andrews and that was one of the best surfaces I've played on. If clubs can't keep a bowling green-esk pitch then 3G is the way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I remember playing J League at Gussie Park on the old 2G there, that was fucking horrible. No professional games should have been played on that surface. However, in the 8-10 years since I last played on astroturf it has improved massively. I played last week at the Uni pitch in St Andrews and that was one of the best surfaces I've played on. If clubs can't keep a bowling green-esk pitch then 3G is the way forward. It's 4 now, and even that still hurts after a shift, must be even worse for the guys playing on it at the pace and intensity they do. It's fine for training and a kick about but not competitive games at that level, IMO.Stuart Lovell was saying 73% of players ( 700 surveyed I'm sure )would rather play on a terrible grass surface than a plastic one. That surely speaks volumes. Wonder what the percentage would be if they used a good grass pitch as a comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Grass. NBB is not in the same category as Biggie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terracingtam Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 It's 4 now, and even that still hurts after a shift, must be even worse for the guys playing on it at the pace and intensity they do. It's fine for training and a kick about but not competitive games at that level, IMO. Stuart Lovell was saying 73% of players ( 700 surveyed I'm sure )would rather play on a terrible grass surface than a plastic one. That surely speaks volumes. Wonder what the percentage would be if they used a good grass pitch as a comparison. Rubbish!!!!!!!!!! 73% probably would love to play on an acceptable grass pitch and I accept that at the current time. But but you are missing the point, the players should be paid and allowed to play to the best of their skills, not get bogged down in mud, splash through water or have the ball bouncing out of reach on a rock hard surface. The fans are the important people who pay to watch FOOTBALL, not what is being served up by Clubs who can't or won't pay to keep their grass pitch in an acceptable condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 We played at Kelty Hearts last week on their new 3G and it was a wonderful surface to play football on, it's light years ahead of 90% of grass pitches you encounter in the Juniors. We now have our own 3G and once it has settled in it should be just as good. That said, if you don't maintain a 3G correctly, or hardly at all, it can be as bad as a bad grass pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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