Duries Air Freshener Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said: Ive read that in France, its not just the police but that a large number of people who work in social services which traditionally have voted left are now voting Le Pen, teachers, social workers, health care etc Yeah, think she's popular with the young as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Ervin H Burrell said: Unsurprising tbh. The army has a problem with it also. I'd imagine it's more of an issue down south than up here though, what say you @Inanimate Carbon Rod have you noticed any of your colleagues with the thin blue line badges, or hinting at more extreme political views. 2 hours ago, Snafu said: Not that long ago the thin blue line flag or emblem was a sign of police solidarity, now for some unknown reason at some point it has become associated with racism. Are you automatically a racist bigot if you become a police officer? Some groups love this stuff, its all distraction and dangerous. Why is there a need to divide people up get them arguing and bickering with each other, when even more than ever there is a need for people to work together? Who says 81% of French police officers would vote for Le Pen? The Guardian fails to back this up with any source and evidence. Genuinely the thin blue line badge that you may see on some police officers body armour or bags in Scotland/rest of UK is a patch which is sold by COPSUK which is a charity set up to support children who’s parents have died in the line of duty. Its administrated by a lovely person called Christine Fulton, who’s husband Lewis was killed when their child was a baby. The charity does fantastic work and the concept of ‘thin blue line’ is in no way right wing its to symbolise the perception of a small number of people who in essence hold back the badness etc. It also pre-dates the stuff from the states around nationalism. I wouldn't wear one of those patches as it has a union jack on it, but i regularly donate to the charity. That article in the Guardian is utter nonsense, the IRR knows exactly what the patch is and is simply trying to shift the narrative, they have been worn and bought far far longer than the issues in America and I dont see why the two should be compared. I do as ive mentioned, spend a fair bit of time in the states and ive seen the thin blue line co-opted by bigots and Trump supporters and genuinely feel disgusted when I see it. Id say my own politics are liberal, I support social housing, strong public services, very pro immigration, im probably a bit further to the right in terms of crime and punishment because of the things ive seen, ie domestic abusers getting non custodial sentences and then murdering their partners. That doesnt mean I want everyone locked up etc, but certainly think for knife/weapons repeat offenders etc it should happen, but conversely believe people should be taught life skills etc in prison to help them rehabilitate, even believe if people work to better themselves, get job offers etc then they should get early release opportunities. I actually know a fair number of BAME police officers and you would not believe the racism they experience out answering calls, from ignorant comments, people ‘wanting to speak to a white policeman’ or just general hatred and abuse, it disgusts me. I absolutely abhor racism. I can honestly hand on heart say that out of the people I know who are currently police officers that I know well enough to have discussed their politics and views on things the vast majority either vote Labour (mostly) or SNP (decreasingly so), id say on constitutional grounds its a 60/40 split in favour of no, id say it was about 60/40 against brexit. A very close friend of mine retired and his email was ‘im leaving to spend time with my family and help Jeremy Corbyn become the next PM’. So this idea that its all verging on Le Pen stuff is really quite strange to me. It tended to be the older cops who were retiring around the start of my service who would have been more tory voting, which tbf they were loyal to them because Thatcher gave them a massive pay bump, but thats gone now, they’re retired and the younger generation are incredibly liberal. That said I wholeheartedly feel disgusted with what happened at the miners strikes and hillsborough etc, I want justice for those wronged there. If i ever met anyone in the police who expressed far right wing views id make sure they were punted. In terms of racism ive seen/been aware of, i’ve reported racist behaviour of a contractor and it was dealt with very quickly and properly. Ive also supported a colleague who reported racist behaviour which resulted in that person being punted. Very frequently when it comes to hate crimes you’ll actually have to convince the victim to provide a statement/help get someone charged, if police were all these bigoted racists i’d be surprised they spend so much time investigating hate crime and trying to detect such offences. It baffles me when you see the no cops at pride stuff too, i get the history of stonewall, but genuinely you’ll not meet a more lgbtq friendly place to work than the police, no one cares one jot who you love/marry or whatever, its incredibly incredibly accepting. Of course though there are some people who are wholly entrenched in their views and would never agree. Some of the people I met at cop26, dont even think I live on the same planet as them. Edited July 10, 2022 by Inanimate Carbon Rod 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 17, 2022 Author Share Posted July 17, 2022 The shitshow that is U.K. politics has convinced me that Independence is the priority BUT in itself it is not enough. An Independent Scotland must have institutions that hold the government and its ministers to a far higher standard of accountability. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Granny Danger said: The shitshow that is U.K. politics has convinced me that Independence is the priority BUT in itself it is not enough. An Independent Scotland must have institutions that hold the government and its ministers to a far higher standard of accountability. Agreed. Maybe we could run up a list of lessons learned from the Motherf....r of Parliaments? 1) no House of Lords. 2) no places reserved in any part of the legislature for "religious" representatives. If religious leaders want to stand for election, fine, but they take their chances in the polling booth like everyone else. 3) straightforward debate about the future of the Monarchy and a Head of State. If the retention of a Monarchy is the will of the people, then it gets no special treatment in legislation and is lable to the same rules as 'Dave down the pub'. No exemptions from laws on employment, animal welfare, tax, inheritance, etc. 4) Early decision on approach to EU/Single Market/EEA or similar. 5) Future of Trident. There'll be more, but I think that's a starter for 10. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 17, 2022 Author Share Posted July 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said: Agreed. Maybe we could run up a list of lessons learned from the Motherf....r of Parliaments? 1) no House of Lords. 2) no places reserved in any part of the legislature for "religious" representatives. If religious leaders want to stand for election, fine, but they take their chances in the polling booth like everyone else. 3) straightforward debate about the future of the Monarchy and a Head of State. If the retention of a Monarchy is the will of the people, then it gets no special treatment in legislation and is lable to the same rules as 'Dave down the pub'. No exemptions from laws on employment, animal welfare, tax, inheritance, etc. 4) Early decision on approach to EU/Single Market/EEA or similar. 5) Future of Trident. There'll be more, but I think that's a starter for 10. Nothing wrong with any of these but some of them are policy issues. I think a constitutional rethink is required that, for example, would not allow a minister to avoid attending a meeting of an oversight committee. Just no lifetime appointments for the most senior judges please! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Salt n Vinegar said: Agreed. Maybe we could run up a list of lessons learned from the Motherf....r of Parliaments? 1) no House of Lords. 2) no places reserved in any part of the legislature for "religious" representatives. If religious leaders want to stand for election, fine, but they take their chances in the polling booth like everyone else. 3) straightforward debate about the future of the Monarchy and a Head of State. If the retention of a Monarchy is the will of the people, then it gets no special treatment in legislation and is lable to the same rules as 'Dave down the pub'. No exemptions from laws on employment, animal welfare, tax, inheritance, etc. 4) Early decision on approach to EU/Single Market/EEA or similar. 5) Future of Trident. There'll be more, but I think that's a starter for 10. What if those are the will of the people? Does that get ignored because you don’t like the idea or is it not an option because you don’t like the idea? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Left Back said: What if those are the will of the people? Does that get ignored because you don’t like the idea or is it not an option because you don’t like the idea? OK, fair point - I have no problem with the will of the people leading the formulation of a system of government. There might be some who would agee to have donors to political parties and unelected/ unelectable former political candidates being given a space in the legislature for life but I doubt if most people would go for it. I'm certainly not remotely interested in such "lords" being able to pass their positions to their children and I'd be amazed if any reasonable person supported that after about 30 seconds thought. As for Bishops automatically in the legislature ... seriously? No Scientology slots or Mormons? Faith healers? If the public support it, I'd argue against it but it's maybe stating the bleedin' obvious that no one alive has ever been asked if they support these arrangements. There might be a fighting chance of such issues being discussed in the formative days of an independent Scotland but there's the square root of F all chance of them being discussed at Westminster. I certainly would be appalled if someone who failed to be elected to Parliament - even via a list system of PR - was shortly thereafter able to be appointed to a government position via a "lords" back door, like Malcolm Offord who just also happened to have been a major donor to the Conservative Party. Despite being rejected by the good people of the Lothians in an election, he was made a Minister of State in the Scotland Office. Some system. The Westminster system stinks and it is no template for anything approaching a 21st century democracy. IMO Edited July 17, 2022 by Salt n Vinegar 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duries Air Freshener Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 On 10/07/2022 at 23:01, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Genuinely the thin blue line badge that you may see on some police officers body armour or bags in Scotland/rest of UK is a patch which is sold by COPSUK which is a charity set up to support children who’s parents have died in the line of duty. Its administrated by a lovely person called Christine Fulton, who’s husband Lewis was killed when their child was a baby. The charity does fantastic work and the concept of ‘thin blue line’ is in no way right wing its to symbolise the perception of a small number of people who in essence hold back the badness etc. It also pre-dates the stuff from the states around nationalism. I wouldn't wear one of those patches as it has a union jack on it, but i regularly donate to the charity. That article in the Guardian is utter nonsense, the IRR knows exactly what the patch is and is simply trying to shift the narrative, they have been worn and bought far far longer than the issues in America and I dont see why the two should be compared. I do as ive mentioned, spend a fair bit of time in the states and ive seen the thin blue line co-opted by bigots and Trump supporters and genuinely feel disgusted when I see it. Id say my own politics are liberal, I support social housing, strong public services, very pro immigration, im probably a bit further to the right in terms of crime and punishment because of the things ive seen, ie domestic abusers getting non custodial sentences and then murdering their partners. That doesnt mean I want everyone locked up etc, but certainly think for knife/weapons repeat offenders etc it should happen, but conversely believe people should be taught life skills etc in prison to help them rehabilitate, even believe if people work to better themselves, get job offers etc then they should get early release opportunities. I actually know a fair number of BAME police officers and you would not believe the racism they experience out answering calls, from ignorant comments, people ‘wanting to speak to a white policeman’ or just general hatred and abuse, it disgusts me. I absolutely abhor racism. I can honestly hand on heart say that out of the people I know who are currently police officers that I know well enough to have discussed their politics and views on things the vast majority either vote Labour (mostly) or SNP (decreasingly so), id say on constitutional grounds its a 60/40 split in favour of no, id say it was about 60/40 against brexit. A very close friend of mine retired and his email was ‘im leaving to spend time with my family and help Jeremy Corbyn become the next PM’. So this idea that its all verging on Le Pen stuff is really quite strange to me. It tended to be the older cops who were retiring around the start of my service who would have been more tory voting, which tbf they were loyal to them because Thatcher gave them a massive pay bump, but thats gone now, they’re retired and the younger generation are incredibly liberal. That said I wholeheartedly feel disgusted with what happened at the miners strikes and hillsborough etc, I want justice for those wronged there. If i ever met anyone in the police who expressed far right wing views id make sure they were punted. In terms of racism ive seen/been aware of, i’ve reported racist behaviour of a contractor and it was dealt with very quickly and properly. Ive also supported a colleague who reported racist behaviour which resulted in that person being punted. Very frequently when it comes to hate crimes you’ll actually have to convince the victim to provide a statement/help get someone charged, if police were all these bigoted racists i’d be surprised they spend so much time investigating hate crime and trying to detect such offences. It baffles me when you see the no cops at pride stuff too, i get the history of stonewall, but genuinely you’ll not meet a more lgbtq friendly place to work than the police, no one cares one jot who you love/marry or whatever, its incredibly incredibly accepting. Of course though there are some people who are wholly entrenched in their views and would never agree. Some of the people I met at cop26, dont even think I live on the same planet as them. My brother in law’s a police officer and the abuse he gets is unreal. They did such an important, dangerous job, especially when COVID was in it’s infancy, yet all we ever seem to hear are conspiratorial and ridiculous claims of racism, which are never backed up by stats or logic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 49 minutes ago, Duries Air Freshener said: My brother in law’s a police officer and the abuse he gets is unreal. They did such an important, dangerous job, especially when COVID was in it’s infancy, yet all we ever seem to hear are conspiratorial and ridiculous claims of racism, which are never backed up by stats or logic. They would seem to be in parts of England. Aren’t there constant news reports about endemic racism in the Met for example? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duries Air Freshener Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Left Back said: They would seem to be in parts of England. Aren’t there constant news reports about endemic racism in the Met for example? Aye, I’m always hearing of such nonsense. It’s never backed up with anything substantial. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, Duries Air Freshener said: Aye, I’m always hearing of such nonsense. It’s never backed up with anything substantial. Even when senior Met officers admit they have a problem with racism? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duries Air Freshener Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Left Back said: Even when senior Met officers admit they have a problem with racism? Yeah mate. My genuinely held belief is that this supposed problem has been talked up beyond belief over the years. Many fall over themselves to condemn it in the strongest possible terms incase they are accused of being one. A joke via WhatsApp, a throwaway comment, the ‘liking’ of a right-wing commentator on Facebook or espousing of a non politically correct talking point all fall under the ever growing umbrella of ‘racism’ these days. If Met Officers say they have a problem, then I’d happily listen to the specific accusations they make, judge whether they are a significant problem, and eat humble pie if convinced. But for me, racism is race-discrimination or a feeling of superiority due to race - both of which are awful. I just don’t see evidence of this, other than the negligible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Anyone see Tit Mathouse' hair. WTAF, blond streaks a bit like an 80s footballer at his age [emoji1][emoji1][emoji1] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 On 10/07/2022 at 16:21, MONKMAN said: Im absolutely shocked that the police are right wing arseholes… No, I’m not really. Anyway, while we’re stuck here with that shower of Tory c***s in charge, here’s Finlands Sanna Marin at a rock festival this weekend. I have no idea if she is any better politically than the fucking idiot Truss or the control freak Sturgeon but she is a wid. Our 2 aren't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 So gay sex is still a sin and religion is still an excuse for homophobia. Glad we got that cleared up. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/02/justin-welby-affirms-validity-of-1998-declaration-that-gay-sex-is-a-sin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 8 hours ago, Granny Danger said: So gay sex is still a sin and religion is still an excuse for homophobia. Glad we got that cleared up. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/02/justin-welby-affirms-validity-of-1998-declaration-that-gay-sex-is-a-sin The 'pick 'n mix' approach to Christian religious belief strikes again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 I have no idea how Christianity is seemingly immune from laws designed to outlaw and disrupt cults. Well ok, I do know why, but for the life of me I can't see how they are in any way materially different to a bunch of loons who believe cats are going to take them to the moon one day, or that ancient aliens genetically intervened to ensure white people became pre-eminent on Earth. Just as much batshittery and phobic shite in the Christian church, but rather than deal with it politicians actually amend the law to ensure they can continue it with complete impunity and free from fear of prosecution? I don't believe individuals should necessarily be persecuted for having a faith, but when a charitable organisation espouses ideas and values that are in conflict with the law, how in f**k is being the earthly head office of a mythical sky fairy any sort of defence? It confounds me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 Tempted... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Boo Khaki said: I have no idea how Christianity is seemingly immune from laws designed to outlaw and disrupt cults. Well ok, I do know why, but for the life of me I can't see how they are in any way materially different to a bunch of loons who believe cats are going to take them to the moon one day, or that ancient aliens genetically intervened to ensure white people became pre-eminent on Earth. Just as much batshittery and phobic shite in the Christian church, but rather than deal with it politicians actually amend the law to ensure they can continue it with complete impunity and free from fear of prosecution? I don't believe individuals should necessarily be persecuted for having a faith, but when a charitable organisation espouses ideas and values that are in conflict with the law, how in f**k is being the earthly head office of a mythical sky fairy any sort of defence? It confounds me. I agree with what you say, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't want to read the literature on the bit in bold, just in case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, BFTD said: I agree with what you say, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't want to read the literature on the bit in bold, just in case. Wee bit of cheeky plagiarism there on my part - 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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