General Politics Thread

[Arabdownunder]

2 hours ago, sophia said:

What would prevent young prospective politicians from socialising in the same fashion as everyone else?

Why would high performing individuals, as an inevitably, succumb to group-think and does relative youth exacerbate this?

If the answers are nothing, they don't and no, I'm afraid to say that you may well be edging towards territory inhabited by the stereotypical da.

 

1. Because their focus on political ambition leads them to seek out social opportunities which advance their standing in the party and they neglect other social avenues 

2. Because succumbing to group think increases their standing in that environment and advances their ambitions.  

3. Not sure what youth has to do with it.

I'm not arguing that all politicians follow this path, but there is a significant number of them that do, in all countries and all parties. They typically form the back bench lobby fodder who only come into prominence when they say something stupid like "I can't live on £82k a year". Which is where we started this conversation. 

[BigDoddyKane]

Stupid question maybe but do you think voting could be overhauled, are political parties as something to vote for past their sell by dates?

Could people voting on more direct things work nowadays with some structure and rules to it. Could it have more impact on the day to day and improve things quicker or would that be just as shite

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Soapy FFC]

My main concern about the 'career' politician is that there is a danger of them forgetting that they first and foremost have a job to represent those that elect them, rather than a job to advance their career. Pursuing a career can lead to people making decisions that are best for them rather than best for their constituents. I'm not saying every politician is like this, but there are politicians (of all political persuasions) that are like this.

We need a mix of people as MPs. Not just university educated, but also those like Senga from the hairdressers down the road. Politicians are the ones making the rules,  and to make good rules you need a wide base of opinion, not just those of a small clique. Most other professionals apply and work within the laid down rules and boundaries of their profession whether they are surgeons, lawyers or teachers, so the fact that they might seem to be in a clique is less of an issue, after all you would not ask a lawyer their advice on a medical matter.

Asking if going to university, getting a medical degree, and working in a hospital makes someone unsuitable to be a surgeon, then no it doesn't, in fact it's absolutely vital that surgeons do that as medicine is a competency based job. No one would want to be operated on by someone who has not gone down that route. However politicians are different. There is no competency based test for someone to become an MP. Maybe there should be, but if you go down that route of, say, needing a degree to become an MP, then you have closed off a great part of the country from every going into politics. Surely this wouldn't be good for our democracy.

 

 

[Dunfermline Don]

Was it Billy Connolly who was said that the fact someone wanted to be a politician should immediately disqualify them from ever being one.

How about everyone gets a chance to serve as an MP, councillor, MSP etc on a similar way that people are selected for jury service. I can’t see that causing too many problems. I could certainly live on £82k and have a few mates in London who could let me kip on their sofa saving a bit on expenses! [emoji2957]

[sparky88]

3 minutes ago, Dunfermline Don said:

Was it Billy Connolly who was said that the fact someone wanted to be a politician should immediately disqualify them from ever being one.

How about everyone gets a chance to serve as an MP, councillor, MSP etc on a similar way that people are selected for jury service. I can’t see that causing too many problems. I could certainly live on £82k and have a few mates in London who could let me kip on their sofa saving a bit on expenses!

This is the original form of democracy used in ancient Greece. Using elections is essentially a watered down form of democracy by comparison.  I can't see why, if it's ok for the legal system, why it can't be OK for politics. 

[DiegoDiego]

I can't see why, if it's ok for the legal system, why it can't be OK for politics. 

Can you really not see why?

My radical idea for the future of politics is a six month delay between general elections.

Any incoming MPs must spend 20hrs a week of those six months in their constituency holding meetings with the public.

Any outgoing MPs get six months of reprisal-free speaking of their mind/voting.

[Sugar_Army]

FWIW I first met the guy who is now my MP about 20 years ago while we were both unemployed and doing a digital media course.  He was editing a film he had made about running motorbike tours including a journey around the Himalayas.  After the course he became a financial advisor.

Just read his wiki and apparently he spent some time as a chef in France as well as gaining his degree in social anthropology.  Apparently he also spent time in the social care system as a teenager and cared for his mother who had MS.

Another guy I also knew about 25-30 years back through a different social circle ran a family pet shop.  I met him again when I got involved in my own small way at the referendum.  He ended up campaigning for the other guy to run as an MP the following year.  He still runs a portakabin selling pet foods every Sunday at a local car boot and has been in a relationship with an MSP for a few years and as far as I am aware still is.

Looking back then, I would not have said either would have been remotely involved in politics.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

I'd like to be an MP.

"The right honorable gentleman for Nonceville is a seething mess Mr. Speaker. Look at him, his head is gone. Trying to push this bill through parliament is an absolute minter for this House"

[tamthebam]

52 minutes ago, Namond Brice said:

I'd like to be an MP.

"The right honorable gentleman for Nonceville is a seething mess Mr. Speaker. Look at him, his head is gone. Trying to push this bill through parliament is an absolute minter for this House"

Presumably at the last election it was

"Nonceville. Conservative hold with an increased majority"

[Bairnardo]

I'd like to be an MP.
"The right honorable gentleman for Nonceville is a seething mess Mr. Speaker. Look at him, his head is gone. Trying to push this bill through parliament is an absolute minter for this House"

Why speak and be confirmed an idiot when you can sit in the second row, contrinuting nowt except braying like a horny chimp and waving bits of paper around*


*for your admittedly grim, bordeline slave wage of 82k plus expenses

[sparky88]

10 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

Can you really not see why?

In that case, I assume you think the jury system is a bad one?

Sortition already happens in some political contexts, for example some caucuses in America. Whenever a politician promotes 'citizen assemblies', they are promoting sortition.

If you want to select the prime minister you have to pay a subscription to the Tory Party. I don't see why that's a better system than literally asking random, incorruptible  people to make decisions. 

[DiegoDiego]

In that case, I assume you think the jury system is a bad one?

No I don't. Assessing evidence of past events is a completely different task from contemplating the ramifications and risk of decisions that will effect the future.

I'd be confident of doing the first well but would not be comfortable doing the latter.

[coprolite]

6 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

 

No I don't. Assessing evidence of past events is a completely different task from contemplating the ramifications and risk of decisions that will effect the future.

I'd be confident of doing the first well but would not be comfortable doing the latter.

I'd be confident that you'd do a better job than many current MPs, based solely on how you've described the role. 

[DiegoDiego]

I'd be confident that you'd do a better job than many current MPs, based solely on how you've described the role. 

Although I did say effect rather than affect, so I'm afraid I'll have to take myself out of the running and apologise to my supporters.

[sparky88]

3 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

 

No I don't. Assessing evidence of past events is a completely different task from contemplating the ramifications and risk of decisions that will effect the future.

I'd be confident of doing the first well but would not be comfortable doing the latter.

I'm still not sure why anything that results in someone becoming an MP makes them any more likely to make a good decision that will affect the future, as you say. 

No-one knows what will happen in the future. I want to be governed by people who admit they haven't got a clue either and are able to make decisions based on evidence put in front of them. 

For instance, is NS basing decisions on how it might impact independence. Or Boris Johnson with Brexit? Probably, and I wouldn't blame them since they owe their jobs to them supporting those issues. Sortition takes these issues away. 

[gmca]

On 08/10/2021 at 13:10, Dunfermline Don said:

Was it Billy Connolly who was said that the fact someone wanted to be a politician should immediately disqualify them from ever being one.

How about everyone gets a chance to serve as an MP, councillor, MSP etc on a similar way that people are selected for jury service. I can’t see that causing too many problems. I could certainly live on £82k and have a few mates in London who could let me kip on their sofa saving a bit on expenses!

Can't remember who said it, but my favourite is "Politics is far too important to be left to politicians".

[Baxter Parp]

 

[Antlion]

11 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

 

You love to see it. Wonder what Johnson and the old crone make of the loss of another batch of “picanninies with watermelon smiles”. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

31 minutes ago, Antlion said:

You love to see it. Wonder what Johnson and the old crone make of the loss of another batch of “picanninies with watermelon smiles”. 

This will start as a trickle until such time as the Queen passes, at which point I expect a flood of resignations as countries exit the Commonwealth.

[Big Rider]

From Broken, Brexit Britain to Cracked, Collapsing Commonwealth.

The sun is truly going down on the British Empire.