General Politics Thread

[Paco]

Were they not getting offered 9% ?!?!

 

I'd kill for a pay rise anywhere near that

 

9% starting in April but they haven’t had a rise in financial year 17/18 - so effectively two 4.5% rises back to back.

 

Perhaps on the face of it decent but in light of the wage erosion over the past ten years it’s a drop in the ocean ultimately. Fair play to them for sticking to their guns.

[BawWatchin]

3 minutes ago, Paco said:

 

9% starting in April but they haven’t had a rise in financial year 17/18 - so effectively two 4.5% rises back to back.

 

Perhaps on the face of it decent but in light of the wage erosion over the past ten years it’s a drop in the ocean ultimately. Fair play to them for sticking to their guns.

It's not "fair play" though. Because they're targetting the wrong Government. They want a pay deal that falls into line with the rest of Europe, but know full well that it's not going to happen until spending on education increases in England and Wales.

A truth that they and their Labour compadres conveniently ignore.

[Paco]

It's not "fair play" though. Because they're targetting the wrong Government. They want a pay deal that falls into line with the rest of Europe, but know full well that it's not going to happen until spending on education increases in England and Wales.
A truth that they and their Labour compadres conveniently ignore.

What should they do then? Roll over, say fair play John, you’re a good guy?

I’ve no issue with any group of workers who feel hard done to using collective power to try and force a better deal for themselves. Good luck to them.

[BawWatchin]

4 minutes ago, Paco said:

 

What should they do then? Roll over, say fair play John, you’re a good guy?

I’ve no issue with any group of workers who feel hard done to using collective power to try and force a better deal for themselves. Good luck to them.

But if their persuit of fair pay is genuine and not purely politiclaly motivated, then why don't they target those who actually have the power to make it happen? Why target a devolved administration who's budget is directly linked to UK Government spending in England and Wales?

It's hard to take them seriously, when they're determined to place the burden at the door of a Scottish Government who is already doing all they can to give them a better pay deal at the expense of available funding for other devolved areas.

[Paco]

But if their persuit of fair pay is genuine and not purely politiclaly motivated, then why don't they target those who actually have the power to make it happen? Why target a devolved administration who's budget is directly linked to UK Government spending in England and Wales?
It's hard to take them seriously, when they're determined to place the burden at the door of a Scottish Government who is already doing all they can to give them a better pay deal at the expense of available funding for other devolved areas.

I do understand what you’re saying and there’s a bit of a point in there.

But the bottom line is the Scottish Government controls teachers pay in Scotland, they could up it by 25% tomorrow if they so desired. If Westminster did increase Education spending in England & Wales the Scottish Government doesn’t have to spend the Barnett consequentials on wages. It is at their discretion entirely what to use it on, because the Scottish Government control teachers wages in Scotland. Nobody else.

Scottish teachers calling on more spending in England and Wales so they can get a pay rise would be a bit odd.

[BawWatchin]

46 minutes ago, Paco said:

I do understand what you’re saying and there’s a bit of a point in there.

But the bottom line is the Scottish Government controls teachers pay in Scotland, they could up it by 25% tomorrow if they so desired. If Westminster did increase Education spending in England & Wales the Scottish Government doesn’t have to spend the Barnett consequentials on wages. It is at their discretion entirely what to use it on, because the Scottish Government control teachers wages in Scotland. Nobody else.

Scottish teachers calling on more spending in England and Wales so they can get a pay rise would be a bit odd.

Yes, they could slash the NHS budget, cut the police force, choose not to mitigate the bedroom tax, increase the lower band of tax.... etc. I'm sure the "totally independent from any party" teachers union would love to see them do this.

How is it that Scottish teachers are so unhappy with already getting the best pay deal in the UK... but there isn't a peep out of the teachers union in Wales under the Labour administration?

Why is it only happening in Scotland, where teachers already get the best pay deal as things stand?

It takes some special pair of blinkers not to see this for the political football that it is.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Pay teachers footballers wages.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I thought I would bring a little bit of perspective to this debate.

The actual pay offer was not 9% but 3% from April 2018, 3% from August 2018 and 3% from April 2019 with another 3% from April 2020.

The previous pay rises were 1% from April 2017 and 1% from August 2018.

Because of job sizing some promoted staff won't get the full rise. In my own situation I didn't get the August 2017 rise because of job sizing. For the deal offered the April 2018 rise catches up with my pay but only by £100 better off. Effectively my pay rise isn't 9% but 5%. Yes it's better than a lot of people out there but also bear in mind that teacher pay was frozen for several years before this. In real terms teacher pay is around 24% lower than a decade ago.

[Paco]

I thought I would bring a little bit of perspective to this debate.

The actual pay offer was not 9% but 3% from April 2018, 3% from August 2018 and 3% from April 2019 with another 3% from April 2020.

The previous pay rises were 1% from April 2017 and 1% from August 2018.

Because of job sizing some promoted staff won't get the full rise. In my own situation I didn't get the August 2017 rise because of job sizing. For the deal offered the April 2018 rise catches up with my pay but only by £100 better off. Effectively my pay rise isn't 9% but 5%. Yes it's better than a lot of people out there but also bear in mind that teacher pay was frozen for several years before this. In real terms teacher pay is around 24% lower than a decade ago.

^^^

Labour agent out to get the SNP, IMO.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

^^^

Labour agent out to get the SNP, IMO.

I'm a member of the SNP.

[BawWatchin]

7 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I thought I would bring a little bit of perspective to this debate.

The actual pay offer was not 9% but 3% from April 2018, 3% from August 2018 and 3% from April 2019 with another 3% from April 2020.

The previous pay rises were 1% from April 2017 and 1% from August 2018.

Because of job sizing some promoted staff won't get the full rise. In my own situation I didn't get the August 2017 rise because of job sizing. For the deal offered the April 2018 rise catches up with my pay but only by £100 better off. Effectively my pay rise isn't 9% but 5%. Yes it's better than a lot of people out there but also bear in mind that teacher pay was frozen for several years before this. In real terms teacher pay is around 24% lower than a decade ago.

Nobody is disputing that Teachers deserve better pay than what is on offer. However, the politically led teachers union is simply using teachers and having them expense their effort and energy attacking the devolved administration, rather than the source of the problem. The freeze on teachers wages in Scotland wasn't a political choice, it was an economic one, after the politically motivated choice was made for England and Wales by the UK Government.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Pay teachers footballers wages.

If it's a pair I know then yes, provided the footballers play for Craigmark Burntonians.

[BawWatchin]

I see the red dot warriors with nothing of their own to contribue are out in force tonight. Cute.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Nobody is disputing that Teachers deserve better pay than what is on offer. However, the politically led teachers union is simply using teachers and having them expense their effort and energy attacking the devolved administration, rather than the source of the problem. The freeze on teachers wages in Scotland wasn't a political choice, it was an economic one, after the politically motivated choice was made for England and Wales by the UK Government.

Oh I'm sure there are some elements within the EIS that are politically motivated but this is far deeper.

I've been teaching almost 25 years now and never seen the morale of the profession be as low as it is now. It's not just pay but increased workload, under-resourcing and the constant moving of the goalposts for both national courses and BGE in S1 to S3. There's only so far that you can salami-slice budgets.

From a personal point of view I think the SNP have been too timid regards taxation and expenditure - Council Tax freezing may have been popular but as a policy it was unsustainable. At least the current budget starts to raise taxes - but I think they could and should go up further if we want to maintain high quality education and health services.

[Paco]

How is it that Scottish teachers are so unhappy with already getting the best pay deal in the UK... but there isn't a peep out of the teachers union in Wales under the Labour administration?

Welsh teachers pay rates are set by the UK government, and any change in salary applies to both England and Wales.

I'm a member of the SNP.

I wasn’t being serious! More a response to the strange logic that teachers should march on Downing Street and not Glasgow for a better pay deal from the Scottish Government.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I wasn’t being serious! More a response to the strange logic that teachers should march on Downing Street and not Glasgow for a better pay deal from the Scottish Government.

Been working late and I've been whooshed.

[emoji23]

[BawWatchin]

47 minutes ago, Paco said:

Welsh teachers pay rates are set by the UK government, and any change in salary applies to both England and Wales.

But not a peep out of the teachers union  that over sees England and Wales.... their silence on the matter is deafening. Yet up here, we have a teachers union that isn't satisfied with the current arrangement that already see's them better off with a commitment to rises that the UK Government hasn't commited to for England and Wales. Yet they continue to place the burden on the Scottish Government who is supposed to have some sort of magic money tree of their own.

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

Oh I'm sure there are some elements within the EIS that are politically motivated but this is far deeper.

I've been teaching almost 25 years now and never seen the morale of the profession be as low as it is now. It's not just pay but increased workload, under-resourcing and the constant moving of the goalposts for both national courses and BGE in S1 to S3. There's only so far that you can salami-slice budgets.

From a personal point of view I think the SNP have been too timid regards taxation and expenditure - Council Tax freezing may have been popular but as a policy it was unsustainable. At least the current budget starts to raise taxes - but I think they could and should go up further if we want to maintain high quality education and health services.

Aye, the council tax freeze felt good at the time but looks like it might have went on too long.

[BawWatchin]

51 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Oh I'm sure there are some elements within the EIS that are politically motivated but this is far deeper.

I've been teaching almost 25 years now and never seen the morale of the profession be as low as it is now. It's not just pay but increased workload, under-resourcing and the constant moving of the goalposts for both national courses and BGE in S1 to S3. There's only so far that you can salami-slice budgets.

From a personal point of view I think the SNP have been too timid regards taxation and expenditure - Council Tax freezing may have been popular but as a policy it was unsustainable. At least the current budget starts to raise taxes - but I think they could and should go up further if we want to maintain high quality education and health services.

You know what will happen if they raise taxes, or do anything to try and raise the cash necessary to fund completely disproportionate raises to the rest of the UK? Other Labour led independent unions will come out and attack the Scottish Government on tax rises or other changes made.

[BawWatchin]

Just now, MixuFixit said:

Why did the SNP not replace council tax?

Because they didn't have a workable system to replace it with. A new system needs to be tested before it can be properly implemented. Simply scrapping the council tax and replacing it with some untested system would have been deeply irresponsible. The promise was also made under the assumption that they would be running as a majority Government in parliament again, which obviously didn't happen.