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Granny Danger

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That's probably true.

As is equating Zionist with Jew for those seeking to tar all anti-Zionists with anti-Semitism and to shut down legitimate debate about the excesses of the Israeli government and their U.S. enablers.

As you well know I don't proscribe to that view. Someone called you an anti-semite the other day on these forums and I responded that you were anything but.

The problem is that many anti-semites use anti-zionism as a cloak for their racism.

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It does when the motive of the supposition is to smear Jews by perpetuting conspiracy theories of false flaggery.

Provide me with an alternative explanation to this being a dog whistle statement then. In law we use standards like "balance of probabilities" and "reasonable doubt". Both require alternative plausible explanations to the proven ones.

It is the most far fetched of things to have been said.

Yep, and we both know it would get thrown out if that was the level of evidence. Just stop.... You're a fud.

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As you well know I don't proscribe to that view. Someone called you an anti-semite the other day on these forums and I responded that you were anything but.

The problem is that many anti-semites use anti-zionism as a cloak for their racism.

Yeah I noticed that and appreciate it.

I don't disagree with your second point, though without opening a whole new can of worms I question whether Jews are a race. I regard them as a religious group.

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Yeah I noticed that and appreciate it.

I don't disagree with your second point, though without opening a whole new can of worms I question whether Jews are a race. I regard them as a religious group.

They're clearly a race. There's literally millions of atheist Jews. Some polls have even shown that more than half of Israelis regard themselves as atheist or agnostic.

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They're clearly a race. There's literally millions of atheist Jews. Some polls have even shown that more than half of Israelis regard themselves as atheist or agnostic.

So if I converted to Judiasm I would change races?

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So if I converted to Judiasm I would change races?

No. The Jewish race and the Jewish religion are distinct things. You can be one but not the other.

Israelis, not jews.

Well done on spectacularly missing the point.

The purpose of pointing that out is that, in what literally self-describes as a Jewish state, more than half of the population are not religious. To reduce Jewish identity to religion is therefore as intellectually rigorous as a Pantomime.

The point is the more than half of the people who do not practice Judaism in Israel are not "not Jewish". They're clearly Jews.

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They're clearly a race. 

 

How many of their genes go back to Israel before the diaspora? The Israeli government has made every effort to stop such research. I'd lay a big bet that you'd find a closer genetic connection to the Israelis of Jesus's time in the Palestinian refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon than with the European immigrants who arrived before and after WW2. Which wouldn't be important if it wasn't for the number of highly placed Israeli politicians laying claim to Greater Israel on that basis, and claiming that Palestinians never existed.

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Yes, most of the ones not Jewish are Muslim. We call them Palestinian Arabs. There is also Bedouins.

Wrong. There are more secular Jews than there are Muslims in Israel. The point being Jewishness is not the same as Judaism.

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So if I converted to Judiasm and moved to Israel and someone made critical comments about me that would not be racist?

Not if they were just about you and they didn't relate to your race, no. Because you specifically wouldn't be attacked for being ethnically Jewish. Because (I presume?) you aren't.

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Not if they were just about you and they didn't relate to your race, no. Because you specifically wouldn't be attacked for being ethnically Jewish. Because (I presume?) you aren't.

Good to know. Now what defines someone who belongs to the Jewish race, as opposed to the Jewish religion?

I'm sure you can answer Welshbairn's more eloquent post too.

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How many of their genes go back to Israel before the diaspora? The Israeli government has made every effort to stop such research. I'd lay a big bet that you'd find a closer genetic connection to the Israelis of Jesus's time in the Palestinian refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon than with the European immigrants who arrived before and after WW2. Which wouldn't be important if it wasn't for the number of highly placed Israeli politicians laying claim to Greater Israel on that basis, and claiming that Palestinians never existed.

1. Counting the genes is not how linguists, historians, or anyone else, define race.

2. I literally couldn't care less for the blood and soil nationalism of some Israelis. I find it just as repugnant as any other ethnic justification for statehood.

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Good to know. Now what defines someone who belongs to the Jewish race, as opposed to the Jewish religion?

I'm sure you can answer Welshbairn's more eloquent post too.

The same way we define someone's ethnicity in literally every other scenario.

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