General Politics Thread

[vikingTON]

Hitler was most definitely a Zionist. Some of the biggest Jew haters out there are Zionists.

 

I don't think you know what "Zionism" means tbh; hardly surprising given your 'homosexuality sparked the collapse of the seven great civilisations' marked you out as a mouthbreather tbh.

[doulikefish]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/21/middleeast/netanyahu-hitler-grand-mufti-holocaust/

[Fotbawmad]

I don't think you know what "Zionism" means tbh; hardly surprising given your 'homosexuality sparked the collapse of the seven great civilisations' marked you out as a mouthbreather tbh.

Whoa! talk about putting words in my mouth. Zionism is about being in favour of a Jewish state, with some people being supportive of it for their own hateful reasons. Take it you and just about everyone else on here has never heard of the Havara agreement?

[vikingTON]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/21/middleeast/netanyahu-hitler-grand-mufti-holocaust/

 

Remarks that were rightly pilloried but wrongly didn't lead to his fall from office. And were thoroughly debunked by an authority on the topic here:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/22/opinions/snyder-netanyahu-holocaust-remarks/

 

Not sure why anyone thinks that either Ken Livingstone or Netanyahu count as qualified experts to trace the origins of the Holocaust tbh.

[ScotSquid]

Hitler was most definitely a Zionist. Some of the biggest Jew haters out there are Zionists.

Bzzz.. Wrong.

I suggest you read Mein Kampf if you actually believe Hitler was a Zionist.

Then come back and admit your wrongness.

[doulikefish]

Bzzz.. Wrong.

I suggest you read Mein Kampf if you actually believe Hitler was a Zionist.

Then come back and admit your wrongness.

Whats Anthonys view??

[vikingTON]

Whoa! talk about putting words in my mouth. Zionism is about being in favour of a Jewish state, with some people being supportive of it for their own hateful reasons. Take it you and just about everyone else on here has never heard of the Havara agreement?

 

Hitler did not support "a Jewish state" and envisaged compulsory expulsions (i.e. ethnic cleansing in its least violent definition) to do so, with the victims' property seized. That is not even remotely similar to the program of the Zionist movement. Thanks for playing anyway.

 

And no words have been put in your mouth, apart from those generated by your utterly moronic brain. You, post #3591:

 

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/223025-holyrood-16-polls-and-predictions/page-120#entry10373250

 

 

There has been 6 times in history where homosexuality has been openly practiced, and it always happens at the end of a civilization cycle. It's a byproduct of men not wanting to have any meaningful relationships with women.

 

 

As I said, a complete and utter mouthbreather, whose historical 'interpretations' will be duly filed in the bin where they belong.

[jmothecat]

Nobody is seriously suggesting Hitler was a Zionist are they? Forcibly removing German Jews (whilst taking their possessions) and putting them in Palestine in order to get rid of Jews isn't Zionism.

I'm still struggling to understand why he brought Hitler up at all, and why he considers this period as before Hitler 'went mad'.

[doulikefish]

On the bright side the tories are being investigated for election fraud,but hey look kens being a knob again

[jmothecat]

It does seem like somebody within the Labour Party has looked at the Tories being in absolute disarray and thought 'hey, that's our job, what can we do to get all the crisis headlines? I know, I'll get one of our bigwigs to claim Hitler was a Zionist.'

[doulikefish]

It does seem like somebody within the Labour Party has looked at the Tories being in absolute disarray and thought 'hey, that's our job, what can we do to get all the crisis headlines? I know, I'll get one of our bigwigs to claim Hitler was a Zionist.'

Seems  to be Corbyns pals,is this the takeback???

[Fotbawmad]

As I said, a complete and utter mouthbreather, whose historical 'interpretations' will be duly filed in the bin where they belong.

Your "paraphrasing" doesn't even remotely match that statement. No attempt to ask for clarification or further explanations, and the one question that has come up is the least relevant. The lining of questioning would have been "What do you mean by civilization cycle?" (admittedly I should have used a different term, because trigger word culture is awash on this forum". Followed by "Can you provide a case study? and then "Can you provide further examples?" However, being faced with instant dismissals, strawmans and character assassination. I have no option, but to end the debate out of principal. 

[vikingTON]

It does seem like somebody within the Labour Party has looked at the Tories being in absolute disarray and thought 'hey, that's our job, what can we do to get all the crisis headlines? I know, I'll get one of our bigwigs to claim Hitler was a Zionist.'

 

Anti-Semitism in the British left has been bubbling away as a story since at least the turn of the year. The fact that Corbyn got the leadership role simply means that far more scrutiny is now being placed on his allies in the PLP and the wider trade unions, Labour student movement etc where this level of 'thought' is all too prevalent.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

However, being faced with instant dismissals, strawmans and character assassination. I have no option, but to end the debate out of principal.

Pretty sure that's not why you're ending the debate tbh.

[vikingTON]

Your "paraphrasing" doesn't even remotely match that statement. No attempt to ask for clarification or further explanations, and the one question that has come up is the least relevant. The lining of questioning would have been "What do you mean by civilization cycle?" (admittedly I should have used a different term, because trigger word culture is awash on this forum". Followed by "Can you provide a case study? and then "Can you provide further examples?" However, being faced with instant dismissals, strawmans and character assassination. I have no option, but to end the debate out of principal. 

 

^^^ word salad

 

I think I'll leave observers of your utter destruction on that thread to determine where and when you appropriately responded to your idiotic, mouthbreathing views being called out for what they were. Needless to say though that you emerged from the disaster with absolutely no credibility to seize the moral high ground and play the victim card though: better luck next time.

[THE KING]

No it isn't - that suggests that Hitler's support for Jewish resettlement was a policy entirely distinct from his 'mad' phase of implementing the Final Solution. Next to no credible historians have ever argued this to be the case. It also misreads a willingness to forcibly resettle Jews from Germany and the intended Greater German Empire - to Mongolia, Madagascar, Palestine or anywhere that was suitable - as 'support for Zionism'. Zionism was not merely a campaign for Jewish resettlement somewhere else, and at no point did the Zionist movement call for the forced expulsion of Jews from their homes and seizure of their property under a racist-eugenicist premise. So no, Hitler was not a supporter of the Zionist movement.

Try again.

Needless to say I'm not surprised in the slightest to see you white knighting for the grubby anti-Semites that form an alarming section of the Labour and 'radical' left. The "Zionist lobby" indeed.

Eh..that was the point I made? I said The Nazis supported the Zionist BUT not for the same reasons , theirs was purely racist motives.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

The Haavara Agreement (Hebrew: ×”×¡×›× ×”×¢×‘×¨×” Translit.: heskem haavara Translated: "transfer agreement") was an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. The agreement was designed to help facilitate the emigration of German Jews to Palestine. While it helped Jews emigrate, it forced them to temporarily give up possessions to Germany before departing. Those possessions could later be re-obtained by transferring them to Palestine as German export goods.[1][2] The agreement was controversial at the time, and was criticised by many Jewish leaders both within the Zionist movement (such as the Revisionist Zionist leader Vladimir Jabotinsky) and outside it.[3]

Edited April 28, 2016 by THE KING

[jmothecat]

Anti-Semitism in the British left has been bubbling away as a story since at least the turn of the year. The fact that Corbyn got the leadership role simply means that far more scrutiny is now being placed on his allies in the PLP and the wider trade unions, Labour student movement etc where this level of 'thought' is all too prevalent.

I remember a lot of that when I was a student. A lot of people within the 'Free Palestine' movement with views that were clearly anti-Semitic. They seemed to genuinely believe that saying 'zionist' instead of 'Jewish' made clearly anti-Semitic sentiment OK. It seems to be a big problem amongst the left of the Labour Party and I can't figure out why.

[Peppino Impastato]

 

I remember a lot of that when I was a student. A lot of people within the 'Free Palestine' movement with views that were clearly anti-Semitic. They seemed to genuinely believe that saying 'zionist' instead of 'Jewish' made clearly anti-Semitic sentiment OK. It seems to be a big problem amongst the left of the Labour Party and I can't figure out why.

It is also the favourite defence of the most racist state on the planet and the most prolific violator of international law to dismiss legitimate criticism of abhorrent actions by Israel as 'anti-semitism' when it is nothing of the sort.

[vikingTON]

Eh..that was the point I made? I said The Nazis supported the Zionist BUT not for the same reasons , theirs was purely racist motives.

 

 

No they didn't. The Nazis did not support Zionism: they supported compulsory ethnic cleansing of Jews from the Greater German Reich to any territory that would take them, without compensation and without any rights to the property held by Jews in that territory. That is not 'Zionism' champ. They did not support a Jewish national state either.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

The Haavara Agreement (Hebrew: ×”×¡×›× ×”×¢×‘×¨×” Translit.: heskem haavara Translated: "transfer agreement") was an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. The agreement was designed to help facilitate the emigration of German Jews to Palestine. While it helped Jews emigrate, it forced them to temporarily give up possessions to Germany before departing. Those possessions could later be re-obtained by transferring them to Palestine as German export goods.[1][2] The agreement was controversial at the time, and was criticised by many Jewish leaders both within the Zionist movement (such as the Revisionist Zionist leader Vladimir Jabotinsky) and outside it.[3]

 

The "economic authorities of Nazi Germany" were not the principal drivers of Nazi policy on the Jewish question, not in 1933, nor in 1938, nor in 1941 when the Final Solution was adopted: Hitler and his close network of party grandees were. Nazi foreign policy goals determined by Hitler and the leading clique were overwhelmingly dominant in the policy process compared to even domestic economic planning, never mind support for Jewish emigration. The agreement was a minor sideshow to the central Nazi policy on the 'Jewish Question'; which at that time involved the forced expulsion of all European Jews to Siberia, once European Russia was captured for German colonists. It is therefore categorically wrong to describe Nazi policy in 1933 as 'support for Zionism': it is a lie peddled by anti-Semites in order to link Zionism with complicity in the Holocaust. That is the murky puddle of intellectual 'thought' that the likes of you and Livingstone swim in.

[jmothecat]

 

It is also the favourite defence of the most racist state on the planet and the most prolific violator of international law to dismiss legitimate criticism of abhorrent actions by Israel as 'anti-semitism' when it is nothing of the sort.

There's a difference between legitimate criticisms of the Israeli government and the language and racism that came from these people. Some of them genuinely believe the state of Israel shouldn't exist at all. They would use negative Jewish stereotypes when talking about 'zionists'. Unfortunately at my university the left had a lot of these types, and I'm certainly not saying everyone on the 'Free Palestine' side is an anti-Semite it is clear that a lot of them are. The bizarre thing about it is as a democratic country with liberal laws (gay marriage for example) in a region of right-wing extremist you would think the left would love Israel.

What does ' ' mean?