General Politics Thread

[Ad Lib]

Funny that the SNP are kicking up a fuss about England making its Sunday trading laws more like Scotland's on the same day as their own figures are likely to show Scotland running an even bigger relative deficit than last year.

[Antlion]

Funny that the SNP are kicking up a fuss about England making its Sunday trading laws more like Scotland's on the same day as their own figures are likely to show Scotland running an even bigger relative deficit than last year.

Scotland positively thriving in the union - God bless it!

[Glen Sannox]

I find it genuinely sad that there are swathes of Scottish people who vote for these imbeciles....

Sent from my iPhone using Pie & Bovril mobile app

Edited March 9, 2016 by Glen Sannox

[Fide]

I find it genuinely sad that there are swathes of Scottish people who vote for these imbeciles....

ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1457527519.996753.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Pie & Bovril mobile app

 

Positively beelin' as always.  Minters gonnae mint.

[renton]

Scotland positively thriving in the union - God bless it!

 

I'm actually dissapointed that the SNP haven't done more to try and demonstrate the relative strengths and weaknesses of the Scottish economy beyond GERS. Jim Cuthbert had previously felt that an equivalent of the UK's pink book, which shows a balance sheet of all public and private revenue streams in anfd out of the UK, would be a huge effort, but a rewarding one.

 

GERS really is no way to measure how Scotland's economy could perform. It has nothing to say about the balance of trade in the economy - which would ultimately decide the interest rates on any given deficit. As I've said before, closing the gap to the rUK is irrelevent, the question is how big a deficit you can sustain on a given interest rate for a given time, and GERS says nothing about that. I'm willing to be that Scotland would be relatively strong exporter and that would change any notional picture. Nor does it say anything about any other private capital flows in and out of Scotland.

 

Beyond that, many of it's attempted calculations are guesswork at best, and in any event 40% of our spending is reserved, and presently something like 80% of decisions on how we raise tax revenue in the public and private spheres are reserved as well. Therefore all it has to say is that UK spending decisions result in higher public spending in Scotland - in other words, it's a measure of how well the current devolution settlement is working, nothing more. To try and apply GERS to the context of an independent Scotland's economy, is imbecilic.

Edited March 9, 2016 by renton

[Ira Gaines]

Glen Minter

[Bishop Briggs]

Funny that the SNP are kicking up a fuss about England making its Sunday trading laws more like Scotland's on the same day as their own figures are likely to show Scotland running an even bigger relative deficit than last year.

 

It is extraordinary that SNP MPs are voting on England's Sunday trading laws. They are seeking to deny English shop workers the same employment opportunities and wages that Scottish shop workers have. 

 

BBC - "The SNP's deputy leader Stewart Hosie said Scottish workers were paid extra for working on Sundays and there were no guarantees these "premium pay" rates, worth thousands of pounds a year, would be protected if hours were extended in other parts of the UK."

 

That is a ridiculous argument as similar rates of pay would be offered in England. Hosie is strengthening the case for EVEL. The Tories could use the SNP's interference as an excuse to meddle in Scottish legislation.

[Antlion]

It is extraordinary that SNP MPs are voting on England's Sunday trading laws. They are seeking to deny English shop workers the same employment opportunities and wages that Scottish shop workers have.

BBC - "The SNP's deputy leader Stewart Hosie said Scottish workers were paid extra for working on Sundays and there were no guarantees these "premium pay" rates, worth thousands of pounds a year, would be protected if hours were extended in other parts of the UK."

That is a ridiculous argument as similar rates of pay would be offered in England. Hosie is strengthening the case for EVEL. The Tories could use the SNP's interference as an excuse to meddle in Scottish legislation.

Strengthening the case for EVEL by voting voting on issues deemed UK-wide after EVEL has been instituted? If only there was a way to stop filthy Scots having a say on UK-wide issues.

[Uncle Psychosis]

 Hosie is strengthening the case for EVEL. The Tories could use the SNP's interference as an excuse to meddle in Scottish legislation.

 

It would of course be ludicrous to suggest that such a thing might be politically useful for the SNP in the long term...

[Ad Lib]

The GERS figures show:

1. Off-shore revenue is halved on last year, having halved the year before that. This doesn't take into account most of the fall in the oil-price, so the 2015-16 figures will be even worse.

2. Our share of on-shore revenue has slightly fallen on last year. This is a problem for the SNP because they claimed that our on-shore tax-base is capable of growing faster than the UK's by as much as 2% per year for a decade. As it stands it's not even keeping pace with it. This prompts the question: what kind of policy changes would we need to make to get even close to that kind of rate of on-shore growth and what would the price of that be?

3. Our share of public spending has risen slightly on last year.

4. Our share of total revenue is lower per head than the rest of the UK.

Basically, there is now literally no definition by which we can be said not to be subsidised by the UK using the Scottish Government's own figures. Truly it appears there is a Union dividend after all. And it's growing.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I find it genuinely sad that there are swathes of Scottish people who vote for these imbeciles....

ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1457527519.996753.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Pie & Bovril mobile app

You'll get a bite one day.

*ruffles hair*

[Granny Danger]

It is quite legitimate for Scottish MPs to vote on legislation that has an important, indirect impact on Scotland.  Anyone who thinks otherwise is a dick.

[Ad Lib]

It is quite legitimate for Scottish MPs to vote on legislation that has an important, indirect impact on Scotland. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a dick.

They wouldn't be able to do it if we were independent. Should the Northern Irish be allowed to participate in the Sunday trading laws of the Republic? What about Spain Portugal's?

[Fide]

The GERS figures show:

1. Off-shore revenue is halved on last year, having halved the year before that. This doesn't take into account most of the fall in the oil-price, so the 2015-16 figures will be even worse.

2. Our share of on-shore revenue has slightly fallen on last year. This is a problem for the SNP because they claimed that our on-shore tax-base is capable of growing faster than the UK's by as much as 2% per year for a decade. As it stands it's not even keeping pace with it. This prompts the question: what kind of policy changes would we need to make to get even close to that kind of rate of on-shore growth and what would the price of that be?

3. Our share of public spending has risen slightly on last year.

4. Our share of total revenue is lower per head than the rest of the UK.

Basically, there is now literally no definition by which we can be said not to be subsidised by the UK using the Scottish Government's own figures. Truly it appears there is a Union dividend after all. And it's growing.

 

f**k right off Libby.  When did you turn into such a rabid Britnat?

 

You actually infuriate me these days.  The only thing GERS shows us is a 1% drop in revenue.

 

Still, let's continue to kow-tow to a corrupt system that's slashing public services and welfare left right and centre whilst making precisely zero inroads in doing anything about Britain's £1.5 trillion BLACK HOLE.

 

Too wee, too poor, too stupid continues to be the mantra of the UKOK twatterati.

[Ira Gaines]

When has Ad Lib NOT been a rabid Britnat? His "keep them honest" shite was fooling nobody.

[Fide]

When has Ad Lib NOT been a rabid Britnat? His "keep them honest" shite was fooling nobody.

 

I actually wish I could double red dot his post, it's so cringeworthy and wrong.

[Bishop Briggs]

It is quite legitimate for Scottish MPs to vote on legislation that has an important, indirect impact on Scotland.  Anyone who thinks otherwise is a dick.

 

So Belgian MPs should be able to have a vote on Dutch laws? The same principle could be applied across Europe. MPs should should only vote on matters that directly affect their constituents, i.e. to whom they are accountable for their actions. That's a basic principle of democracy. It's you who is the dick.

[renton]

The GERS figures show:

1. Off-shore revenue is halved on last year, having halved the year before that. This doesn't take into account most of the fall in the oil-price, so the 2015-16 figures will be even worse.

2. Our share of on-shore revenue has slightly fallen on last year. This is a problem for the SNP because they claimed that our on-shore tax-base is capable of growing faster than the UK's by as much as 2% per year for a decade. As it stands it's not even keeping pace with it. This prompts the question: what kind of policy changes would we need to make to get even close to that kind of rate of on-shore growth and what would the price of that be?

3. Our share of public spending has risen slightly on last year.

4. Our share of total revenue is lower per head than the rest of the UK.

Basically, there is now literally no definition by which we can be said not to be subsidised by the UK using the Scottish Government's own figures. Truly it appears there is a Union dividend after all. And it's growing.

 

You hugged yourself writing that, didn't you. On shore revenue growth doesn't necessarily have to keep pace with the UK, the only thing it has to have is a balance of payments that allow it to borrow at decent interest rates. 40% of spending controlled by Westminster, 80% of tax raising decisions controlled by Westminster, Welfare controlled by Westminster - all GERS shows, all GERS ever can show is how the current devolution settlement is working. It doesn't take into account the numerous different policy decisions an independent Scotland could make under any number of circumstances that the devolved Scotland cannot.

 

It's hard to talk about a Union dividend when it's largely their decision making that creates the fiscal gap in the first place.

[Baxter Parp]

You hugged yourself writing that, didn't you. On shore revenue growth doesn't necessarily have to keep pace with the UK, the only thing it has to have is a balance of payments that allow it to borrow at decent interest rates. 40% of spending controlled by Westminster, 80% of tax raising decisions controlled by Westminster, Welfare controlled by Westminster - all GERS shows, all GERS ever can show is how the current devolution settlement is working. It doesn't take into account the numerous different policy decisions an independent Scotland could make under any number of circumstances that the devolved Scotland cannot.

 

It's hard to talk about a Union dividend when it's largely their decision making that creates the fiscal gap in the first place.

Yes, the fact that the Scottish economy is in the toilet after 300 years of Westminster control isn't much of an advert for the union.

[Ad Lib]

You hugged yourself writing that, didn't you. On shore revenue growth doesn't necessarily have to keep pace with the UK, the only thing it has to have is a balance of payments that allow it to borrow at decent interest rates. 40% of spending controlled by Westminster, 80% of tax raising decisions controlled by Westminster, Welfare controlled by Westminster - all GERS shows, all GERS ever can show is how the current devolution settlement is working. It doesn't take into account the numerous different policy decisions an independent Scotland could make under any number of circumstances that the devolved Scotland cannot.

It's hard to talk about a Union dividend when it's largely their decision making that creates the fiscal gap in the first place.

So you're saying Scotland would cut welfare and raise taxes? This is and always has been a question of scale. With this current gap we could literally abolish all schools, all defence and cut the NHS by 10% and still only have the same deficit level as a proportion of GDP to finance as the rest of the UK, at which comparable interest rates might even begin to be relevant.

It is simply inconceivable that an independent Scotland would be able to borrow at lower levels of interest rate than the rest of the UK off the back of twice as big a deficit.