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Granny Danger

General Politics Thread

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Rennie must love you Ad-lib!

A lot of people that would normally give Willie the benefit of the doubt have really lost patience over this. Including, I might add, some who oppose fracking.

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What's with the weirdo language in your posts wee Willie?

Who actually types like a character from Take The High Road?

Don't really see what the issue is if you can understand what he's saying. It's completely legible.

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A lot of people that would normally give Willie the benefit of the doubt have really lost patience over this. Including, I might add, some who oppose fracking.

Yep, you really shouldn't reverse a conference vote, every leader of every party knows that although a fair few have over the years.

You normally end up being handed a decanter and a revolver if you do...

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Yep, you really shouldn't reverse a conference vote, every leader of every party knows that although a fair few have over the years.

You normally end up being handed a decanter and a revolver if you do...

The most worrying thing for me was the way that those around Willie very quickly and without any apparent reservations, pulled rank. The same people, if the issue had been one of their own pet-projects, or if Nick Clegg had done something like this, would have been howling from the rooftops at the injustice of it all.

But because they are unsympathetic to fracking (and typically haven't actually looked at the evidence) and because Willie's a "nice man" they totally suspend their principles or pretence at caring about party democracy and try to suggest that the vote was somehow illegitimate or didn't represent members' true feelings, and that dissent at the forced change is minimal, when it's not.

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The most worrying thing for me was the way that those around Willie very quickly and without any apparent reservations, pulled rank. The same people, if the issue had been one of their own pet-projects, or if Nick Clegg had done something like this, would have been howling from the rooftops at the injustice of it all.

But because they are unsympathetic to fracking (and typically haven't actually looked at the evidence) and because Willie's a "nice man" they totally suspend their principles or pretence at caring about party democracy and try to suggest that the vote was somehow illegitimate or didn't represent members' true feelings, and that dissent at the forced change is minimal, when it's not.

Sorry for my ignorance, but could you provide a brief synopsis on the mechanism of how Rennie could go against conference?

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The most worrying thing for me was the way that those around Willie very quickly and without any apparent reservations, pulled rank. The same people, if the issue had been one of their own pet-projects, or if Nick Clegg had done something like this, would have been howling from the rooftops at the injustice of it all.

But because they are unsympathetic to fracking (and typically haven't actually looked at the evidence) and because Willie's a "nice man" they totally suspend their principles or pretence at caring about party democracy and try to suggest that the vote was somehow illegitimate or didn't represent members' true feelings, and that dissent at the forced change is minimal, when it's not.

And I'm Joanna Lumley.

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Sorry for my ignorance, but could you provide a brief synopsis on the mechanism of how Rennie could go against conference?

He's not supposed to be able to.

Conference votes on motions to set policy. It is the sovereign body of the Scottish Liberal Democrats.

Policy Committee, the membership of which is elected by all members of the party, has limited powers to formulate policy either to respond to extraordinary events in-between Conferences, or to adopt interim policies until Conference has had the opportunity to consider an issue in detail and reach a determined view. It has oversight of the contents of the manifesto, but is constrained by clear determinations of party policy. They can choose to omit something from the manifesto but they cannot contradict Conference.

Willie approached Policy Committee under the pretence that the fracking motion, as amended, was inconsistent with the pre-manifesto motion passed on Saturday. This was hugely disingenuous because fracking wasn't even mentioned in the pre-manifesto debate and the question of carbon reduction was explicitly addressed by the advocates of allowing fracking in the fracking debate on Friday. He basically "bounced" them into agreeing to put an anti-fracking statement in our manifesto, despite Conference supporting it.

It's unconstitutional. It's undemocratic. It's a disgrace.

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He's not supposed to be able to.

Conference votes on motions to set policy. It is the sovereign body of the Scottish Liberal Democrats.

Policy Committee, the membership of which is elected by all members of the party, has limited powers to formulate policy either to respond to extraordinary events in-between Conferences, or to adopt interim policies until Conference has had the opportunity to consider an issue in detail and reach a determined view. It has oversight of the contents of the manifesto, but is constrained by clear determinations of party policy. They can choose to omit something from the manifesto but they cannot contradict Conference.

Willie approached Policy Committee under the pretence that the fracking motion, as amended, was inconsistent with the pre-manifesto motion passed on Saturday. This was hugely disingenuous because fracking wasn't even mentioned in the pre-manifesto debate and the question of carbon reduction was explicitly addressed by the advocates of allowing fracking in the fracking debate on Friday. He basically "bounced" them into agreeing to put an anti-fracking statement in our manifesto, despite Conference supporting it.

It's unconstitutional. It's undemocratic. It's a disgrace.

Thanks for the answer, I was tempted to simply type tl;dr for the Lolz.

However, I'm not that ignorant, interesting to read that the majority of members voted for something and it was overturned, seems as you say, very undemocratic.

Out of interest, is this now Scottish Lib Dem policy ( anti - fracking) ? How does this compare to the UK wide policy?

Thanks again for taking the time to answer.

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It doesn't make it right but don't all parties have form for this?

Ie ignoring conference opinion when deciding manifestos?

Is the Lib Dem case more of an issue because they have a constitution supposedly stopping it from happening?

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What's with the weirdo language in your posts wee Willie?

Who actually types like a character from Take The High Road?

Whit are ye talkin' aboot?

Gie me an example.

While we're at it.

Dae ye agree or disagree wi' whit I wrote?

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Thanks for the answer, I was tempted to simply type tl;dr for the Lolz.

However, I'm not that ignorant, interesting to read that the majority of members voted for something and it was overturned, seems as you say, very undemocratic.

Out of interest, is this now Scottish Lib Dem policy ( anti - fracking) ? How does this compare to the UK wide policy?

Thanks again for taking the time to answer.

It was about 2/3 of the hall in what was the busiest debate after the one on AWS on Saturday.

As far as I'm concerned, the Constitution clearly provides that permitting of limited fracking and prioritising extraction towards weaning off US shale in the petrochemical industry should now be our priority.

As far as Willie is concerned, Policy Committee have overruled Conference and we are against fracking "on climate change grounds" because of a general statement in the pre-manifesto that says we want to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels. This is despite the fact that our argument was allowing limited fracking would achieve that goal, marginally faster.

The Scottish Party has a different policy from the Federal Party, who speak only for England on the issue of fracking. The Welsh Lib Dems speak for themselves. The current policy of the Federal Party is cautiously in favour of fracking but heavily critical of the attempts by the Tories since May to relax rules that would have allowed local authorities to force important safeguards and local consent for any schemes.

The issue is coming up at Federal Conference in York next week, where some have put forward a motion to ban fracking outright, a lot of the justifications being flatly contradicted by the evidence in, among other reports, the one the Scottish Government commissioned in 2014. There are two attempts to amend that motion by, among others, Ed Davey, the former Secretary of State for the Environment, to hold the line at the Federal Party's current policy, and the motion may be "referred back" if they can't get a hearing on the amendments. The internal party group the Alliance of Liberal Democrat Engineers and Scientists is particularly anxious to see that the motion at Federal Conference does not pass as moved.

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A lot of people that would normally give Willie the benefit of the doubt have really lost patience over this. Including, I might add, some who oppose fracking.

I thocht ye were talkin' aboot me :wub:

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I thocht ye were talkin' aboot me :wub:

Speak English you backwards peasant. #flashman

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The most worrying thing for me was the way that those around Willie very quickly and without any apparent reservations, pulled rank. The same people, if the issue had been one of their own pet-projects, or if Nick Clegg had done something like this, would have been howling from the rooftops at the injustice of it all.

But because they are unsympathetic to fracking (and typically haven't actually looked at the evidence) and because Willie's a "nice man" they totally suspend their principles or pretence at caring about party democracy and try to suggest that the vote was somehow illegitimate or didn't represent members' true feelings, and that dissent at the forced change is minimal, when it's not.

Libs suspending their principles?

I never thought I would see such a day!

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Being serious, it's completely undemocratic. You have rules, you don't break them, if you do, you are no better than a dictatorship or a mob. Don't get me wrong, parties normally avoid the vote it kick it into the long grass if they think they would lose but if it has been voted for by membership, you abide by it.

Rennie is not above your party.

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Speak English you backwards peasant. #flashman

I hope that's something else ye wid say at the hustings.

I presume ye are a Scot?

Whit is wrong in writing in yer mither tongue?

Does it offend your eyes?

'Sic a parcel o' rogues in a nation....'

I think that you wid fit in that parcel.

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...The Scottish Party has a different policy from the Federal Party, who speak only for England on the issue of fracking. The Welsh Lib Dems speak for themselves...

but surely as the UK is one country the English party should have the last say and decide the issue.

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