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General Politics Thread


Granny Danger

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1 minute ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Well there is one country, that has an extensive history of chemical weapons use,  has that nerve agent and keeps it seven miles away.  A detective might start there.

Is this your theory that MI6 did it to provoke a war with Russia? And the reason they chose a target close by Porton Down was to save on petrol?

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1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

Is this your theory that MI6 did it to provoke a war with Russia? And the reason they chose a target close by Porton Down was to save on petrol?

There's no doubt the UK government is attempting to use it to direct events the way it wants them to go and for maximum propaganda value.  I don't think anyone could seriously disagree with that.

As for the location maybe it's dangerous to transport or maybe that was simply where the target was located.  The guy himself is just a convenient tool imo.  

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6 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

There's no doubt the UK government is attempting to use it to direct events the way it wants them to go and for maximum propaganda value.  I don't think anyone could seriously disagree with that.

As for the location maybe it's dangerous to transport or maybe that was simply where the target was located.  The guy himself is just a convenient tool imo.  

Perhaps they're just fed up with Russian assassins thinking they can do what they like in the UK.

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1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

Perhaps they're just fed up with Russian assassins thinking they can do what they like in the UK.

Perhaps.  It has the feel of the dodgy dossier all over again.  You're aware portion down have now said they can't say it's Russian in origin?  So all you have is the word of may, Johnson et Al.  Maybe that's enough for you but if they told me it was raining I'd check the window.

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11 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

There's no doubt the UK government is attempting to use it to direct events the way it wants them to go and for maximum propaganda value.  I don't think anyone could seriously disagree with that.

As for the location maybe it's dangerous to transport or maybe that was simply where the target was located.  The guy himself is just a convenient tool imo.  

Takes one to know one.

 

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1 minute ago, Peppino Impastato said:

You're also aware the UK government line which you're espousing too is a 100% bona fide legitimate conspiracy theory?  You're now a conspiracy theorist, welcome to the club.

A conspiracy theory that a traitor to a country that invented and produced the same nerve agent used was murdered by a state with with a clear and undisputed track record of murdering dissidents and traitors abroad? I suppose so. More likely than MI6 wanting to start a war with Russia I'd say.

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2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

A conspiracy theory that a traitor to a country that invented and produced the same nerve agent used was murdered by a state with with a clear and undisputed track record of murdering dissidents and traitors abroad? I suppose so. More likely than MI6 wanting to start a war with Russia I'd say.

Hmmmm yet you refuse to accept a news corporation owned by the British government might be opposed to Scottish independence.  

 

This'traitor' was pardoned, swapped and retired years ago and of no consequence.  The method used was crude and unsuccessful and very obviously pointed back to Russia (except when examined by the actual experts they couldn't link it to Russia) which you'd imagine the Russians might have thought of.  All you have to go on is the word of Boris Johnson.

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In the absence of any evidence, if we're just speculating, a Russian state hit should be the least likely scenario. Almost every other alternative possibility should be ahead of it given how ridiculous an idea it is that Putin would do this ahead of an election and the World Cup.  I even heard some loony on TV suggesting he may have intentionally planned it to get the World Cup cancelled so he could show how Russia is unfairly demonised by the west. 

It may transpire that Zizzi's has CCTV footage of Putin himself sneaking in and spiking the Skripals' drinks, or they might wake up tomorrow saying that must have been some pretty potent eccies they had that day and it's all very embarrassing. But the rush to judgement before anything was known is telling. The British/US/western anti-Russian movement is benefitting hugely from this.

My own feeling about the most likely scenario is probably something related to his current shady activities. It seems his original 'handler' lives nearby which is probably why Skripal lives in Salisbury, and who knows what he's been up to since officially retiring.

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5 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Hmmmm yet you refuse to accept a news corporation owned by the British government might be opposed to Scottish independence.  

Maybe because you failed to come up with case of clear and recent bias.

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8 minutes ago, Zetterlund said:

In the absence of any evidence, if we're just speculating, a Russian state hit should be the least likely scenario. Almost every other alternative possibility should be ahead of it given how ridiculous an idea it is that Putin would do this ahead of an election and the World Cup.  I even heard some loony on TV suggesting he may have intentionally planned it to get the World Cup cancelled so he could show how Russia is unfairly demonised by the west. 

It may transpire that Zizzi's has CCTV footage of Putin himself sneaking in and spiking the Skripals' drinks, or they might wake up tomorrow saying that must have been some pretty potent eccies they had that day and it's all very embarrassing. But the rush to judgement before anything was known is telling. The British/US/western anti-Russian movement is benefitting hugely from this.

My own feeling about the most likely scenario is probably something related to his current shady activities. It seems his original 'handler' lives nearby which is probably why Skripal lives in Salisbury, and who knows what he's been up to since officially retiring.

Are you suggesting that only those in the establishment/on the right of politics are/should be anti-Russia, or more precisely, anti-Putin?

 

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2 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Maybe cause you have an unhealthy respect for authority and would dismiss any case presented.  That's probably why you take Boris Johnson's e words as gospel.

Just so I’m clear.  People who think Russia were behind the poisoning are automatically supporters of the Tory government?  Is that really what you are saying?

 

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5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Are you suggesting that only those in the establishment/on the right of politics are/should be anti-Russia, or more precisely, anti-Putin?

 

No, I never mentioned left or right. I'm a lefty by any measure and would no doubt disagree with almost all of Russia's domestic politics but it doesn't make me anti-Russian. I'm also very strongly anti-war. It's the reason I'm naturally sceptical of government positions that are geo-politically provocative or aggressive.

One of the curious things about all this is that while we're told Russia is a "threat" and "aggressive", the people smeared as Putin's puppets and Kremlin stooges are almost exclusively those of an anti-war persuasion.

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1 minute ago, Zetterlund said:

No, I never mentioned left or right. I'm a lefty by any measure and would no doubt disagree with almost all of Russia's domestic politics but it doesn't make me anti-Russian. I'm also very strongly anti-war. It's the reason I'm naturally sceptical of government positions that are geo-politically provocative or aggressive.

One of the curious things about all this is that while we're told Russia is a "threat" and "aggressive", the people smeared as Putin's puppets and Kremlin stooges are almost exclusively those of an anti-war persuasion.

I’m also sceptical of those positions but if we assume Russia is behind this, and I do, I think the response has been very moderate though the rhetoric has been tougher.

Russia is delighted that our position on issues such as Ukraine has been so insipid.

 

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4 minutes ago, Zetterlund said:

No, I never mentioned left or right. I'm a lefty by any measure and would no doubt disagree with almost all of Russia's domestic politics but it doesn't make me anti-Russian. 

Do you agree with their foreign policy in Ukraine and Georgia?

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4 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Do you agree with their foreign policy in Ukraine and Georgia?

In Ukraine, generally yes, as a response to the coup. 

Georgia had been brewing  since the pro-western Saakashvili came to power (the same Saakashvili who turned up in Ukraine after the coup and was given citizenship and made a Governor). The Georgians started the war but Russia went too far in their response, international law broken on all sides. I don't know how legit the breakaway regions are - there are two realities in these situations depending what side of the fence you're on. Kosovo good, Crimea bad etc.

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