General Politics Thread

[Mark Connolly]

Ruthie has finally stepped up to the plate and joined the bandwagon to pardon the Suffragettes, while avoiding anything remotely controversial.

#futurePM

[Peppino Impastato]

21 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

I really hope we don't.  We certainly won't in Moray. 

The SNP is rightly a broad church.  If we lurch to far to the "radical" side, we will lose a big chunk of support.

Yup, all these people who think the SNP need to be more radical are idiots who probably think the greens are relevant electorally.  The SNP needs to be competent not radical.

[Granny Danger]

4 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Yup, all these people who think the SNP need to be more radical are idiots who probably think the greens are relevant electorally.  The SNP needs to be competent not radical.

^^^^ Tartan Tory.

[NotThePars]

The SNP’s demonstrated its competency for the past 11 years. That it seems to be getting plaudits, once again, for pursuing some level of radical politics is encouraging and good IMO. I find it annoying that people (not saying peppino is saying it) tacitly argue that compromise should be one way in favour of business interests where leftists ought to shut up and eat their cereal while the SNP and the Yes movement woos the centre right into jumping on board. It’s a battle you’ll never win if your goal is social justice.

[Jmothecat2]

The SNP’s demonstrated its competency for the past 11 years. That it seems to be getting plaudits, once again, for pursuing some level of radical politics is encouraging and good IMO. I find it annoying that people (not saying peppino is saying it) tacitly argue that compromise should be one way in favour of business interests where leftists ought to shut up and eat their cereal while the SNP and the Yes movement woos the centre right into jumping on board. It’s a battle you’ll never win if your goal is social justice.

Is the goal independence to deliver social justice and a left-wing country, or using the established left-wing nature of the electorate to deliver independence?

[Peppino Impastato]

19 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

The SNP’s demonstrated its competency for the past 11 years. That it seems to be getting plaudits, once again, for pursuing some level of radical politics is encouraging and good IMO. I find it annoying that people (not saying peppino is saying it) tacitly argue that compromise should be one way in favour of business interests where leftists ought to shut up and eat their cereal while the SNP and the Yes movement woos the centre right into jumping on board. It’s a battle you’ll never win if your goal is social justice.

Not at all.  I think we have different definitions of radical.  The income tax changes are not radical.

[Peppino Impastato]

5 minutes ago, Jmothecat2 said:

 

Is the goal independence to deliver social justice and a left-wing country, or using the established left-wing nature of the electorate to deliver independence?

 

Interestingly enough Scotland would have been governed by left leaning governments every year since 1950 if was independent.  I wonder what it would look like today.

 

Labour want to deny us what they dream of for themselves if they can't have it too.  It's not Scotland's fault England almost always votes conservative.

[NotThePars]

Is the goal independence to deliver social justice and a left-wing country, or using the established left-wing nature of the electorate to deliver independence?

I’m not convinced by the latter so I would say the former. I also wouldn’t see the point of independence if it was necessary to capitulate to business interests to achieve it. I think we don’t appreciate the fact that a mainstream positive vision of a socially just independent Scotland was at the heart of a movement that had a substantial jump in the polls and nearly got over the line and instead try to give undue prominence to fringe figures such as the RISE lot who really didn’t have that substantial a role in the campaign. That’s just my view on events and I’m willing to admit it’s probably rose-tinted.

[Peppino Impastato]

2 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

I’m not convinced by the latter so I would say the former. I also wouldn’t see the point of independence if it was necessary to capitulate to business interests to achieve it. I think we don’t appreciate the fact that a mainstream positive vision of a socially just independent Scotland was at the heart of a movement that had a substantial jump in the polls and nearly got over the line and instead try to give undue prominence to fringe figures such as the RISE lot who really didn’t have that substantial a role in the campaign. That’s just my view on events and I’m willing to admit it’s probably rose-tinted.

 

Exactly, rise are radical and are to be ignored.  

[Granny Danger]

Other than the first post war government the Labour Party have never delivered radical change though the Scottish electorate probably thought that is was they have been voting for for the last number of decades.

There is no point to Independence if it is going to be a Labour-of-old type government; we’d be as well staying in the UK.

Radical politics is easily acceptable if explained correctly.  The SNP have been vocally anti nuclear for years but we have been told repeatedly by  the Labour establishment that an anti-nuclear Party was unelectable.

 

[Peppino Impastato]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

Other than the first post war government the Labour Party have never delivered radical change though the Scottish electorate probably thought that is was they have been voting for for the last number of decades.

There is no point to Independence if it is going to be a Labour-of-old type government; we’d be as well staying in the UK.

Radical politics is easily acceptable if explained correctly.  The SNP have been vocally anti nuclear for years but we have been told repeatedly by  the Labour establishment that an anti-nuclear Party was unelectable.

 

I totally agree with that just don't see anti nuclear as radical.  It's normal.

[Peppino Impastato]

Having weapons that can kill everyone on the planet 100 times over and render it unliveable for 50 thousand years is pretty radical.  Most countries don't.

[NotThePars]

Other than the first post war government the Labour Party have never delivered radical change though the Scottish electorate probably thought that is was they have been voting for for the last number of decades.
There is no point to Independence if it is going to be a Labour-of-old type government; we’d be as well staying in the UK.
Radical politics is easily acceptable if explained correctly.  The SNP have been vocally anti nuclear for years but we have been told repeatedly by  the Labour establishment that an anti-nuclear Party was unelectable.
 

Aye I’m no arguing that we should pursue independence for an old school Labour type government but I do think that protecting and building on the ideology that founded the welfare state should be a central component of any drive for independence. Is that compatible with business interests? I’m sceptical.

[John Lambies Doos]

Are we advocating James Connolly type politics?

[Wee Bully]

20 hours ago, NotThePars said:

 

 

Aye I’m no arguing that we should pursue independence for an old school Labour type government but I do think that protecting and building on the ideology that founded the welfare state should be a central component of any drive for independence. Is that compatible with business interests? I’m sceptical.

 

I've got no issue with socially progressive policies.  But unless you are suggesting full communism, you are going to need "business". 

[NotThePars]

I've got no issue with socially progressive policies.  But unless you are suggesting full communism, you are going to need "business". 

Well, about that.

[williemillersmoustache]

Huge Gaffe-ney

Ammirite??

 

Scottish Labour MP Hugh Gaffney apologises for offensive LGBT and Chinese remarks

[John Lambies Doos]

I've got no issue with socially progressive policies.  But unless you are suggesting full communism, you are going to need "business". 

A citizens party?

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, Wee Bully said:

I've got no issue with socially progressive policies.  But unless you are suggesting full communism, you are going to need "business". 

 

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

 

Well, about that.

 

I neither support nor endorse capitalism but I accept its inevitability for the foreseeable future.  I won't criticise others for disagreeing with that but I do believe it is naive to think that it will be replaced anytime soon.

What is both desirable and achievable is to utilise the surplus wealth in a more equitable way and to change the power structures to reflect a society where wealth does not equate power.  This will not be easy, but I genuily think we would have a better shot of that in an Independent Scotland than we ever will in the UK.

 

[doulikefish]

Huge Gaffe-ney
Ammirite??
 
Scottish Labour MP Hugh Gaffney apologises for offensive LGBT and Chinese remarks

Lead story on the beeb and reporters camped on his doorstep........sorry he isnt snp