General Politics Thread

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Devastated that Boss Hogg never got elected.

[Florentine_Pogen]

3 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Agree with this. One thing that Johnson isn’t given enough credit for is undermining and demeaning the office of PM. His election in the first place - a TV personality and cartoon character - really stepped this up and he’s only ground the office down even further. If anyone out there has lingering fantasies of Disraeli, Gladstone, Churchill, or even Thatcher or Blair, and imagines that the position of UK PM is somehow still a massive force in global politics, then the farces of May and Johnson have really put paid to them. The longer Johnson remains, the less possible it is to imagine that UK PMs are political colossi, and subsequently the less natural it seems that they should govern us as wise, patriarchal statesmen. Breaking away from joke figures is easier than breaking away from those who manage to stride about the world stage commanding respect.

HIGNFY has a lot to answer for. Any politician with their eyes on high office and delusions of gravitas shouldn't be anywhere near this programme. Hattersley started it I think and then Johnson.....now it's that odious pr*ck Rees-Mogg.

Perhaps it's a symptom of a greater societal malaise - the commercial world is where the real power is and party politics is the hobby. 

[H Wragg]

Devastated that Boss Hogg never got elected.

He might have invested in a half decent pair of Mr. Magoos.

[Florentine_Pogen]

Simon Case 'attended Christmas gathering'

The cabinet secretary Simon Case who is investigating Christmas parties last year in Downing Street, attended an “impromptus Christmas drinks gathering” in his office last year, according to Politico and the Independent.

Citing two officials who were present Politico says Case “shared drinks with a group of 15 to 20 staff at his office and in the waiting room outside at 70 Whitehall in mid-December 2020.”

Guido hears similar.

He quotes Labour’s deputy leader Angela Rayner as saying:

Boris Johnson as Prime Minister has set the tone for the civil service and the rest of government.

Which each new revelation there is growing evidence of a culture of turning a blind eye to the rules.

Labour made it clear when the investigation was launched that the person in charge should be uncompromised and able to make a fair and independent judgement. These fresh revelations put that into question.”

The SNP has called for the Case investigation to be scrapped.

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Edited December 17, 2021 by Florentine_Pogen

[Fullerene]

53 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Agree with this. One thing that Johnson isn’t given enough credit for is undermining and demeaning the office of PM. His election in the first place - a TV personality and cartoon character - really stepped this up and he’s only ground the office down even further. If anyone out there has lingering fantasies of Disraeli, Gladstone, Churchill, or even Thatcher or Blair, and imagines that the position of UK PM is somehow still a massive force in global politics, then the farces of May and Johnson have really put paid to them. The longer Johnson remains, the less possible it is to imagine that UK PMs are political colossi, and subsequently the less natural it seems that they should govern us as wise, patriarchal statesmen. Breaking away from joke figures is easier than breaking away from those who manage to stride about the world stage commanding respect.

Why should he get the credit?  He is just copying Trump as a joke populist leader.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Nonsense. Labour voters there lent their votes to oust the Tories.

Labour were in clear second place yet didn't capitalise on it.

You have to say it was a shit result for them only softened by an even shitter result for the Tories.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Absolutely this. The Tories have been happily treating the pre Boris party as a different entity and getting away with it. A change from Johnson to anyone else would mean this would be replicated.
It's almost as if they are walking away from their liabilities, starting afresh with the same personnel and yet still claiming past victories.... [emoji848]

Sounds like Sevco . . .

[Theyellowbox]

8 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

6 hours ago, Theyellowbox said:

Absolutely this. The Tories have been happily treating the pre Boris party as a different entity and getting away with it. A change from Johnson to anyone else would mean this would be replicated.
It's almost as if they are walking away from their liabilities, starting afresh with the same personnel and yet still claiming past victories....

Sounds like Sevco . . .

[Fullerene]

4 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Labour were in clear second place yet didn't capitalise on it.

You have to say it was a shit result for them only softened by an even shitter result for the Tories.

You are right.  Labour came second in 2019.  However this time the Lib Dems nipped in quickly with a narrative that suggested they were the main challengers and that was accepted before anyone bothered to check.

This by election was all about giving the Tories a kicking and unfortunately for Labour, the Lib Dems got in first.

[welshbairn]

2 hours ago, Fullerene said:

You are right.  Labour came second in 2019.  However this time the Lib Dems nipped in quickly with a narrative that suggested they were the main challengers and that was accepted before anyone bothered to check.

This by election was all about giving the Tories a kicking and unfortunately for Labour, the Lib Dems got in first.

I stayed up for the coverage and the message on Sky was that Labour did a deal to let the Libdems have free reign, but the local party in Oswestry said f**k that and campaigned hard. If so they didn't get very far.

Edited December 17, 2021 by welshbairn

[Salt n Vinegar]

11 hours ago, Fullerene said:

You are right.  Labour came second in 2019.  However this time the Lib Dems nipped in quickly with a narrative that suggested they were the main challengers and that was accepted before anyone bothered to check.

This by election was all about giving the Tories a kicking and unfortunately for Labour, the Lib Dems got in first.

If that's correct, I find it odd.  How, exactly, could the Libdems even appear to be the main threat when Labour were second last time and when Starmer has 6 goes at tearing Johnson a new one every Wednesday? 

If was a Labour supporter I think I'd be asking why they couldn't "do a Libdem" against a sleaze-ridden oaf who was having by far his worst few weeks in office and when around a hundred of his own MPs refused to support his public health message.  If not last Thursday, when? 

If the Tories get a new leader and the current or next Chancer of the Exchequer starts his lower tax plan, by the time the next election comes round, Starmer might well find himself up against a competent PM, an 80 odd seat mountain to climb and a still largely unimpressed Scottish electorate who will not exactly be in a mood to hand him the dozens of Scottish constituencies he'd probably need fo have a chance of a majority. 

Yes, BoJo is an @rse but the Labour party really can't take much encouragement from last Thursday. They had an open goal and booted the ball over the bar. 

Must do better, Starmer. 

[Suspect Device]

6 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

If that's correct, I find it odd.  How, exactly, could the Libdems even appear to be the main threat when Labour were second last time and when Starmer has 6 goes at tearing Johnson a new one every Wednesday? 

If was a Labour supporter I think I'd be asking why they couldn't "do a Libdem" against a sleaze-ridden oaf who was having by far his worst few weeks in office and when around a hundred of his own MPs refused to support his public health message.  If not last Thursday, when? 

If the Tories get a new leader and the current or next Chancer of the Exchequer starts his lower tax plan, by the time the next election comes round, Starmer might well find himself up against a competent PM, an 80 odd seat mountain to climb and a still largely unimpressed Scottish electorate who will not exactly be in a mood to hand him the dozens of Scottish constituencies he'd probably need fo have a chance of a majority. 

Yes, BoJo is an @rse but the Labour party really can't take much encouragement from last Thursday. They had an open goal and booted the ball over the bar. 

Must do better, Starmer. 

Very simply, it's less of a leap for a Tory voter to vote LibDem than to vote labour (except in Scotland where it's anyone but the SNP for the unionists.)

[Salt n Vinegar]

Just now, Suspect Device said:

Very simply, it's less of a leap for a Tory voter to vote LibDem than to vote labour (except in Scotland where it's anyone but the SNP for the unionists.)

I fully realise the party switching problems between 'right/centre/left' voters but that is exactly the problem for Labour.  Given the ridiculous circumstances behind last week's election, given the holes that BoJo dug for himself, if they can't come from second place to hurt the Tories, how are they going to form the next UK Government? 

That's why I think that those who confuse last week's result with the Tories being in trouble are kidding themselves on. 

The Tories would sell their grannies' false teeth and zimmers to stay in power.  It will take something exceptional to even dent them in a general election. I've seen nothing yet to make me think the current Labour front bench is anything like exceptional. 

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Very simply, it's less of a leap for a Tory voter to vote LibDem than to vote labour (except in Scotland where it's anyone but the SNP for the unionists.)

Which could mean Tories just switching to Lib Dem and the Tory still winning in some seats.

Labour need to give voters a reason to vote for them - at the moment I'm struggling to see what that reason is other than they are not the Tories.

[Suspect Device]

4 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Which could mean Tories just switching to Lib Dem and the Tory still winning in some seats.

Labour need to give voters a reason to vote for them - at the moment I'm struggling to see what that reason is other than they are not the Tories.

Starmer won the leadership contest by not being Corbyn. He reckons he can win the election by not being Boris. 

That is the only reason he can give because he has nothing of any substance. 

[Soapy FFC]

2 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

If the Tories get a new leader and the current or next Chancer of the Exchequer starts his lower tax plan, by the time the next election comes round, Starmer might well find himself up against a competent PM, an 80 odd seat mountain to climb and a still largely unimpressed Scottish electorate who will not exactly be in a mood to hand him the dozens of Scottish constituencies he'd probably need fo have a chance of a majority. 

 

It's a bit like DFS, increase prices temporarily then cut them back to where they were and call it a massive must buy now sale.

[ICTJohnboy]

New PM in waiting, or is she being lined up to replace the Queen?

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by ICTJohnboy

[Soapy FFC]

7 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

New PM in waiting, or is she being lined up to replace the Queen?

 

What the f**k has happened to this country that she is a serious contender to be the next PM.

[Mark Connolly]

11 minutes ago, Soapy FFC said:

What the f**k has happened to this country that she is a serious contender to be the next PM.

It's also quite frightening that she might be a better option than the current one

[NotThePars]

On 17/12/2021 at 10:45, welshbairn said:

Not sure if the Tories would be wise to get shot of Johnson given the alternatives, weirdly a lot of people like him and dismiss his foibles as just Boris being Boris. Sunak might appeal to women of a certain age with his puppy dog eyes but that could wain quickly as we move into a world of austerity budgets with high inflation and rising interest rates. On other matters it was nice to see the old Loaded editor running on the Lawrence Fox ticket polling under 1%.

The press have clearly decided the joke isn't funny anymore so I think there's an internal debate over when the Tories stick the knife in given the quicker they do it the more it looks like they can cave to outside pressure. Once they replace him and have their fluffers close ranks again they'll be fine. 

22 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Labour were in clear second place yet didn't capitalise on it.

You have to say it was a shit result for them only softened by an even shitter result for the Tories.

Aye they finished second in 2019 and were scooped by the Lib Dems. There's an argument that Labour can win but here's the numerous factors that are in play as I see it:

• They form a progressive alliance with the Lib Dems pre-election and successfully stand aside where it's feasible
• The press keep up their attacks
• The Tories either stick with Johnson or replace him with someone similarly toxic
• Post-election they can form a pact with the SNP to govern

That's off the top of my head and of the four how many are actually remotely possible going by the people currently leading the Labour Party and the Lib Dems? The first one alone will literally never happen.