General Politics Thread

[Guest]

I see this weird 21st century phenomenon of cancel culture continues with the Olympics ceremony Director being bagged in disgrace for a sketch show that he did as a comedian 23 years ago !!

Where will it all end ?

I doubt there will be many lily white people out there with nothing in their past which can't be used against them in some way or another...........

[WhiteRoseKillie]

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

No.  He was an adviser with zero power, they were the elected, and supposedly accountable politicians.  If they allowed themselves to be directed by him the culpability is all theirs.

As a colleague of mine back in the day said to officials “You advise me, I tell you”.  If the relationship between Cummings and government ministers was anything different then they are the ones to blame.

Absolutely. In my job, I advise the reponsible person (Governor) of any H&S issues in his Prison. How, or if, he deals with these are his responsibility. In Law, I am the competent person. He is the responsible person. A distinction which takes an awful lot of pressure off me. 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

40 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Sure, ultimate responsibility lies with the politicians, but he was Johnson and Gove's boss in Vote Leave and carried on that work in Downing Street. He was the one who came up with the bus slogan and Britain getting invaded by 80 million Turks if we stayed in the EU.

You reckon Johnson and Gove saw him as their boss? Or even their equal? 

[welshbairn]

5 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

You reckon Johnson and Gove saw him as their boss? Or even their equal? 

They followed his instructions to the letter, at least till they'd forced Brexit through and won the election.

[NotThePars]

Cummings basically said his overriding goal was to stop Labour getting in and the Tory press openly praised Johnson promising f**k all of substance in 2019 so they’re just as culpable and they know it. It’s funny that people are clutching their pearls about a cabal of advisers deciding who should be PM when they also treated the idea of member democracy in the Labour Party as an existential threat and stayed quiet about party donors demanding the removal of the Scottish Labour leader this year.

[Michael W]

The advisor appearing to have more power than the politicians only tells you that the pertinent politicians are complete shitbags and have failed to exercise proper control.

Cummings was very much a convenient shield for Johnson given the ire went against him instead. 

[welshbairn]

I'm not remotely trying to excuse the Tory party and all who sail in her, but Cummings trying to absolve himself of all blame while claiming he had the power to pick and choose PMs is laughable.

[NotThePars]

The advisor appearing to have more power than the politicians only tells you that the pertinent politicians are complete shitbags and have failed to exercise proper control.
Cummings was very much a convenient shield for Johnson given the ire went against him instead. 

It’s also been clear and openly stated multiple times to everyone who pays a modicum of attention that Johnson brought Cummings in on the promise that he would do all the legwork and let Johnson enjoy the title and pomp of his position without having to put in the graft.

It’s like watching Triple H say he doesn’t need DX to beat The Rock at Summerslam because he’s good enough on his own and then acting shocked when the Road Dogg wallops Dwayne with a chair when the ref isn’t looking. If you’re seriously surprised that the guy is full of shit and not exercising active control then that’s on you at this point.

[J_Stewart]

Dawn Butler chucked out of the Commons earlier for an utter roasting of Boris and the Tories. It will of course go nowhere, and Ser Keef will probably demand she apologise for *reasons* but nice to see someone in an official capacity making these statements that we all already know

[doulikefish]

19 minutes ago, J_Stewart said:

Dawn Butler chucked out of the Commons earlier for an utter roasting of Boris and the Tories. It will of course go nowhere, and Ser Keef will probably demand she apologise for *reasons* but nice to see someone in an official capacity making these statements that we all already know
 

Mental that you can get chucked out for telling the truth and carry on as normal when you are indeed a liar 

[ICTJohnboy]

Ian Blackford was taken to task by the speaker at PMQs a couple of weeks ago, when he accused BoJo of "Misleading the House:

"You can't say that, Mr Blackford", he was told. "Unless you insert the word Inadvertently into that sentence" 

So...... You can tell as many lies as you fucking like, but you MUST NOT accuse anyone of lying.

What a fucking farce of a Parliament!

Well done, Dawn Butler.... If only your leader had as as much gumption. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Reminds me of a Dennis Skinner quote (he apparently didn't say it though):

"Half the Tory members opposite are crooks."

When told to withdraw this remark by the Speaker: "OK, half the Tory members aren't crooks."

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Muh mother of parliaments, muh democracy.

An absolute minter of a country.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

She should have taken a leaf out of Alan Clark's book and said Boris was economical with the actualite.

[SANTAN]

She obviously knew what she was doing. If she's not capable of exposing lies through clever language then she's either monumentally stupid or unsurprisingly doing the type of performative things most MPs love to do nowadays. 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

19 minutes ago, SANTAN said:

She obviously knew what she was doing. If she's not capable of exposing lies through clever language then she's either monumentally stupid or unsurprisingly doing the type of performative things most MPs love to do nowadays. 

I do get what you mean but for some reason the British parliament is still essentially 17th century theatre but with less forsooths. It's all performative man 

[welshbairn]

30 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

She should have taken a leaf out of Alan Clark's book and said Boris was economical with the actualite.

He nicked that from the UK Cabinet Secretary who was accused of lying in an Australian court, and claimed he had just been economical with the truth. He was trying to get the memoirs of retired MI5 agent banned. Terrible book, mainly moaning about his pension and about how he and some pals tried to get Harold Wilson fitted up as a Soviet spy.

[sophia]

30 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

She should have taken a leaf out of Alan Clark's book and said Boris was economical with the actualite.

Aah, Alan Clark, there's one of the worst.

The phrase itself goes back much further and was used by Robert Armstrong .....

Anyway, I see I've been beaten to it, so I'll just leave you dear reader to research if it pleases you so to do, the wickedness of Clark

[Antlion]

46 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

I do get what you mean but for some reason the British parliament is still essentially 17th century theatre but with less forsooths. It's all performative man 

It’s the English parliament - in the same basic shape as it was in the 17th century. As far as I know, it made no concession to becoming a new, “British” institution when it let some Scots in.

[SANTAN]

50 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

I do get what you mean but for some reason the British parliament is still essentially 17th century theatre but with less forsooths. It's all performative man 

That's certainly true, I just think stuff like this isn't really a protest at the rules more a quick headline grab. If she wanted to make the point she could have reeled off lie after lie without directly saying so but leaving it wide open for all to see. At least Mhari Black had age as an excuse and it certainly seemed more authentic. Dawn Butler is very good at what she does imo and is a shrewder (is that even a word?) political operative than she acts.