General Politics Thread

[Dawson Park Boy]

Okay. We’ll obviously need to await the 2020 Accounts being published.

You can go on about PPE but there’s a bit of a smell about the guarantees given by the SG to Gupta plus the ferries 

Anyway, this  will come out in due course.

The £600k was to do with the party, not the government.

You're obviously on a bit of a high just now. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[lichtgilphead]

59 minutes ago, Pato said:

What is it about the ferries that is such a big deal among a certain section of unionists? Is just because they're big boats that are expensive but don't shoot missiles?

Glen Minter might be able to tell you. His username is literally one of the ferries involved.

 @Glen Sannox

[renton]

1 hour ago, Pato said:

What is it about the ferries that is such a big deal among a certain section of unionists? Is just because they're big boats that are expensive but don't shoot missiles?

The shipyards having been famously well managed prior to devolution.

[strichener]

11 hours ago, Florentine_Pogen said:

I went off Salmond big time when he went in to bat for Trump over the Menie Estate fiasco and refused to 'call in' the planning application. This ultimately led to the loss of a unique marine environment, to the detriment of us all.

Eh?  Aberdeenshire Council rejected the application and permission was granted after the SG called in the application.

[strichener]

4 hours ago, Pato said:

What is it about the ferries that is such a big deal among a certain section of unionists? Is just because they're big boats that are expensive but don't shoot missiles?

The whole sorry mess?  From the SNP taking plaudits when Fergusons was bought by McColl to giving guarantees and the ferry contracts.  To Audit Scotland deciding to get involved and carry out an investigation into the contracts.  None of it looks good tbh.

[John Lambies Doos]

I said you can look for yourself you lazy b*****d. Google is free. I don't think it's the sort of claim that demands evidence because only an absolute dullard would try and debate such a simple point. 
Your comprehension levels are frighteningly poor. I said people have been saying it for 20 years and then once you've jumped in to dispute this I've doubled down and said of course pro Indy supporters thought it was inevitable 20 years ago but it is more common over the past decade due to the rise of the SNP. The fact you think this is me changing my opinion is utterly mind boggling to me. You do have previous tbf, your ability to not follow a conversation was admittedly hilarious when you got all annoyed about WW3 [emoji23]

Not sure i agree with that. I have wanted to see an independent Scotland since I was young, but its only in the last decade or so I feel its inevitable. Before that I always longed to see it but was very much a pipe dream...bit like current Welsh independence. Always think to myself "what if the cunninghame seat had gone to Labour in 2007....

[BigDoddyKane]

The demographics is mentioned a lot by some and I asked what stats back it up but never giot any links. I did some searching and found this though I take all polls/surveys with a pinch of salt. Is this kinda accurate? My feeling is if we are relying on supposed "demographics" and not trying to sell independence to the floating voters then its not ticking all the boxes.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34283948

[WhiteRoseKillie]

25 minutes ago, Pato said:

From memory some of the subsets on that were quite small at the young end. The majority for No among the youngest group was criticised at the time and I think a lot of polling since then has justified that criticism.

People who say demographics won't matter make the assumption that as people get older and accumulate property, pension investments and so on that they'll get more conservative (not necessarily socially conservative) and people who say they do matter point out this only works if you don't move the pension age closer and closer to 70 and don't concentrate home ownership among retirees and professional landlords.

This may be what finally steers the GBP back leftwards. A recurring theme of Tory propaganda has always been, "Labour will take your stuff and give to undeserving "others"" - easily peddled when, mainly through RTB, the working class suddenly had assets to protect. 

That generation are now dying off, and the coming generation (I'll take my kids as a benchmark, so say from 25-30) are bright enough to know that, without Gran or Grandad (or Mum or Dad) leaving them some inheritance, they will probably end up paying off multiple mortgages without ever owning a house. "Labour will take their stuff" isn't a threat when they've got fúck all, or in many cases less, as they prepare to carry that millstone of Student Debt around for decades. 

[BigDoddyKane]

43 minutes ago, Pato said:

From memory some of the subsets on that were quite small at the young end. The majority for No among the youngest group was criticised at the time and I think a lot of polling since then has justified that criticism.

People who say demographics won't matter make the assumption that as people get older and accumulate property, pension investments and so on that they'll get more conservative (not necessarily socially conservative) and people who say they do matter point out this only works if you don't move the pension age closer and closer to 70 and don't concentrate home ownership among retirees and professional landlords.

Good points, thanks

Im not saying they dont matter but speaking to older voters who remember 79, one said back then it was mentioned about younger voters after the result. This is just my opinion but I think any reliance on demographics is risky along with any reliance on EU. You got to be able to sell independence and show that Scotland can stand on its own 2 feet outside of uk and eu.

These points Demographics/EU are positives that shouldnt be ignored and can be included but relying on them as major sources ignores the fact of how quickly things can turn either younger voters for whatever reason moving away from indy (seems unlikely at moment but can happen over time depending on other issues) and people not being so keen on EU (another EU financial crisis for example unlikely but could happen)

[SANTAN]

41 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

This may be what finally steers the GBP back leftwards. A recurring theme of Tory propaganda has always been, "Labour will take your stuff and give to undeserving "others"" - easily peddled when, mainly through RTB, the working class suddenly had assets to protect. 

That generation are now dying off, and the coming generation (I'll take my kids as a benchmark, so say from 25-30) are bright enough to know that, without Gran or Grandad (or Mum or Dad) leaving them some inheritance, they will probably end up paying off multiple mortgages without ever owning a house. "Labour will take their stuff" isn't a threat when they've got fúck all, or in many cases less, as they prepare to carry that millstone of Student Debt around for decades. 

I agree with much of this but as someone in that age range who will probably never own a house I don't see at which point an en masse switch to Indy or Labour would help that situation at all. I can envisage a Labour government in power again but I can't see too many people switching to voting for Indy because of financial uncertainty or disdain from the government and their life chances. 

"I'm sad I don't own a house, let's vote for potential austerity and a turbulent economy for the forseeable" all to spite a party? I don't see it. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Stormzy

[WhiteRoseKillie]

3 hours ago, Stormzy said:

I agree with much of this but as someone in that age range who will probably never own a house I don't see at which point an en masse switch to Indy or Labour would help that situation at all. I can envisage a Labour government in power again but I can't see too many people switching to voting for Indy because of financial uncertainty or disdain from the government and their life chances. 

"I'm sad I don't own a house, let's vote for potential austerity and a turbulent economy for the forseeable" all to spite a party? I don't see it. (1)

(Bolded) - that would be why I posted in the General Politics thread. 

(1) Why not? How's Brexit panning out round your way?  have we not seen people vote expressly to prevent a man with a beard becoming PM? Because they "just dinnae like wee Krankie"!? Because they follow a particular football team? Some people certainly do not deserve a vote, but that's the price we pay for Universal Suffrage. 

[LongTimeLurker]

I would have though that after a few wars in MENA people in possession of a reasonable IQ would start to notice how the simplistic one side good other side bad paradigm unravels pretty quickly and would stop applying it. For example, many of the defenders of Misrata in Libya portrayed by the western media as the heroic good guys when still on the receiving end of a severe power imbalance eventually turned out to be a bunch of vile racist thugs where neighbouring Tawergha was concerned once the boot was on the other foot, or how an awful lot of the Syrian protestors from 2011-12 eventually turned out to have an extreme fundamentalist Sunni agenda rather than the secular democratic one that the western media had projected onto them to fit the role of the perceived good guy camp. 

[NotThePars]

Would probably find the right thread for that post or indeed just log off for a bit.

[LongTimeLurker]

...or maybe you should grow up and drop all the Citizen Smith and Freedom for Tooting stuff.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

10 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

...or maybe you should grow up and drop all the Citizen Smith and Freedom for Tooting stuff.

Your sole reaction to this has been to point out that Palestinian's, and indeed Muslims generally now, are not woke, so it's funny to now be belittling others' politics as immature tbh 

[sophia]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

...or maybe you should grow up and drop all the Citizen Smith and Freedom for Tooting stuff.

Oi you, get your own epithets! 

I used them once and I think I didn't get away with it 

[The Master]

Douglas Ross forgetting about social distancing during the FM election, before being reminded there's cameras all around...

https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/selection-of-the-first-minister-may-18-2021?clip_start=14:25:06&clip_end=14:25:22 

Edited May 18, 2021 by The Master

[Dunning1874]

Cabinet reshuffle being announced today. No word on who's in yet, but Fergus Ewing (good riddance) and Fiona Hyslop are out.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Another Home Office raid foiled in Paisley by the looks of it.

 

[NotThePars]

25 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Another Home Office raid foiled in Paisley by the looks of it.

 

I've seen a few people (correctly) pointing out these networks exist and are arguably just as well organised down south but what should be notable is that the opposition to these evictions and deportations reaches the highest levels (at least rhetorically) of the Scottish government. This is a rebuttal of the British state's authority in Scotland and from the neighbours in these neighbourhoods to Sturgeon there is an acknowledgment, on some level, that the Home Office and the Tory government do not have any authority in Scotland. Morally at least and possibly increasingly political or legal if this can be built on.

Edited May 20, 2021 by NotThePars