General Politics Thread

[sophia]

18 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Aye, that's the one.

I'm not sure what your point is.

I don't agree with everything he says or everything he's done but Margo and him did a huge amount to bring the movement to the point where it is now.
 

I would have thought it fairly obvious.

Old men in blazers, for all of their past glories (and failures) aren't going to be positively decisive in winning the one future vote that counts. I rather think that they have great difficulty in coming to terms with that.

[pandarilla]

I would have thought it fairly obvious.
Old men in blazers, for all of their past glories (and failures) aren't going to be positively decisive in winning the one future vote that counts. I rather think that they have great difficulty in coming to terms with that.

They might not be the best people to take the movement over the line but dismissing their entire contribution is absolutely ridiculous.

Internet culture seems very keen to write people off entirely, if they dare to veer off the 'right on' path (or had something in their past that doesn't fit with the current narrative).

Salmond, macaskill, and sillars are still legitimate voices in the movement. I'm glad they're no longer leading it - but quite often when you're out of the top jobs you have a freedom that allows some important truths.

[sophia]

14 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

They might not be the best people to take the movement over the line but dismissing their entire contribution is absolutely ridiculous.

Internet culture seems very keen to write people off entirely, if they dare to veer off the 'right on' path (or had something in their past that doesn't fit with the current narrative).

Salmond, macaskill, and sillars are still legitimate voices in the movement. I'm glad they're no longer leading it - but quite often when you're out of the top jobs you have a freedom that allows some important truths.

Be so bold so as to explain?

Their job is to provide support and positivity, all with an eye on the prize.

Do all the ego driven politicking they like after, but before, it should be more about the old guys helping getting over 50.

Unfortunately a significant cohort end up barking at the moon just like Ken Maginnis

[git-intae-thum]

The current leadership of the SNP have levels of public support for independence that their predecessors could only dream of. This could very arguably be put down to outside factors rather than any actions taken by scotgov.

Their predecessors (who battled far less favourable independence polling) got us a referendum... and to within a whisker. 

Bit of respect please.

 

[AUFC90]

Salmond is head and shoulders above any UK politician of the last 20 years. Easily.

[Ludo*1]

George Galloway has started a petition on the back of the #ResignSturgeon trend.

https://www.change.org/p/scottish-parliament-vote-of-no-confidence-in-nicola-sturgeon-and-the-scottish-government?utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=custom_url&recruited_by_id=c6a59e90-a195-11e5-adae-53703f67cc20

[NotThePars]

9 hours ago, pandarilla said:

They might not be the best people to take the movement over the line but dismissing their entire contribution is absolutely ridiculous.

Internet culture seems very keen to write people off entirely, if they dare to veer off the 'right on' path (or had something in their past that doesn't fit with the current narrative).

Salmond, macaskill, and sillars are still legitimate voices in the movement. I'm glad they're no longer leading it - but quite often when you're out of the top jobs you have a freedom that allows some important truths.

I don't really have an opinion either way but is your last sentence just a generalised sentiment or are there any particular 'important truths' you feel these people have stated recently that the SNP are ignoring

8 hours ago, AUFC90 said:

Salmond is head and shoulders above any UK politician of the last 20 years. Easily.
 

Certainly one of, if the not the, shrewdest populists of the last 20 years.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

10 hours ago, strichener said:

Whilst this is undeniable, there are some that don't want to acknowledge these past achievements as doing so would make it much harder to rubbish anything that these individuals are now saying.  Basically as soon as they don't bow to the current leadership they are a liability that is best ignored Or ridiculed.

How anyone can seriously state that someone like Salmond has been anything but a driver towards independence is beyond me.  The guy carried the SNP for years.

I never, ever stated that all these people...Salmond, Sillars, et al....haven't been vital in getting the independence movement to the point we're at now.

What I said was that there's a danger of it all being de-railed because of a dangerous combination of egos and personal bitterness, and their continual sniping from the sidelines which drives internal in-fighting. 

Jim Sillars, Alex Salmond, Joanna Cherry, Kenny MacAskill.....thank you all for your previous (and current) invaluable contributions. Now please, with the end in sight, all pull together, shut the f*ck up and stop giving those who would see independence destroyed, a foothold. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Bob Mahelp

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

8 hours ago, AUFC90 said:

Salmond is head and shoulders above any UK politician of the last 20 years. Easily.
 

In some ways that's true, but his live TV debate with Alistair Darling was an utter car-crash which should haunt him, and all of us that want independence, for years. The great debater had his arse handed to him, and that allowed Darling to get on the front foot with his 'Plan B' nonsense which the Yes campaign could not shake. 

Salmond did so many good things, but that was a disaster. 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Thinking about yer da crowdfunding a Scottish Mount Rushmore with Salmond, Sillars and MacAskill.

Would genuinely chip in if they used this one.

[J_Stewart]

I'd equate Salmond now with Brian Clough and Nottingham Forest. A charismatic, polarising leader, and undeniably the most important and successful figure in the organisations history, but due to ego, stayed / is staying involved for far too long, caused / causing significant disruption within the organisation itself and the support, and eventually led to them going backwards. 

Salmond has done more for the Scottish Independence movement than any other person past or present, I just wish he would ride off in to the sunset, re-appearing sparingly to troll the f**k out of the Tories. No one does it better.

 

 

 

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

10 hours ago, AUFC90 said:

Salmond is head and shoulders above any UK politician of the last 20 years. Easily.
 

Hahahahahaha!

[AUFC90]

In some ways that's true, but his live TV debate with Alistair Darling was an utter car-crash which should haunt him, and all of us that want independence, for years. The great debater had his arse handed to him, and that allowed Darling to get on the front foot with his 'Plan B' nonsense which the Yes campaign could not shake. 
Salmond did so many good things, but that was a disaster. 

The first debate was roughly a draw then Salmond hammered him the 2nd one.

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

3 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

No he got hammered by Darling on the currency stuff imo.

He did. I believe that his performance that night over the currency sealed it for Better Together.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

24 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said:

He did. I believe that his performance that night over the currency sealed it for Better Together.

I don't think it was quite as black and white as that, but his performance was very poor and he looked to be unprepared going into it. 

People expected him to get torn into Darling, but his first question was 'why do you call it Project Fear ?' Darling just looked at him, smiled and said 'we don't'.  And that was that. I remember thinking...'fuxsake, all the questions you could ask and you chose that ?'

He also couldn't answer Darling's Plan B questions. It was pretty awful .

 

[NotThePars]

I don't think debates in themselves are the major game changers people insist they are but the currency issue did give Better Together a wedge they desperately needed to start sapping the momentum of the Yes campaign. Getting bogged down in arguments like this was a big factor in failing to get over the line, imo.

[Detournement]

2 hours ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said:

He did. I believe that his performance that night over the currency sealed it for Better Together.

It was surely less his performance and more the fact that the SNP/Yes movement didn't (and still don't) have a credible position on currency. 

[NotThePars]

5 hours ago, Detournement said:

It was surely less his performance and more the fact that the SNP/Yes movement didn't (and still don't) have a credible position on currency. 

It brought it front and centre to the public's attention and was clearly a major weakness for Salmond who was pretty unassailable at that point. First time I recalled him looking rattled.

[AUFC90]

I also recall the very first first ministers questions after that debate where he hilariously tore a stand in Jackie Baillie an absolute new one.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

It brought it front and centre to the public's attention and was clearly a major weakness for Salmond who was pretty unassailable at that point. First time I recalled him looking rattled.

Given that they started with such low ratings in the build up to the referendum I don't think they ever really thought they could win, so the currency wasn't a big issue, they could just blag their way through it, which Salmond thought he was a master at. As soon as Westminster and the Treasury went on the offensive about sharing the pound they had no fall back position, just unconvincing waffle like "It's our pound too you know!". That's what fucked it, ironically along with the EU membership question.

Edited August 5, 2020 by welshbairn