General Politics Thread

[Baxter Parp]

No need.  England has 160+ selective grammars that cream off the best of Year 6 and prepare them for academic excellence.  Only two flaws:  1. There aren't enough of them and 2.. The lower schools still teach, broadly, the same curriculum, which is a missed opportunity.

So, f**k all to do with Scotland where we really did do away with elitism 50 years ago. Clearly your aim is a nation of stockbrokers and labouring worker drones.

[Detournement]

11 hours ago, SweeperDee said:

 

Would definitely argue against your last point though, teenagers now are definitely as smart, or smarter than when I was in that age bracket (I’m 25 now).

 

In 2000 the Scottish results were Maths 533 (now 489), Reading 526 (now 504) and Science 522 (now 490).

Those are big drop offs.

 

[Detournement]

5 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

5 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

 

So, f**k all to do with Scotland where we really did do away with elitism 50 years ago. Clearly your aim is a nation of stockbrokers and labouring worker drones.

Look at the school league tables and you will see we already have a massively economically stratified education system.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Diane Abbot, outspoken critic of police officers using spit hoods because she didnt feel use of them offered protection or was a necessary piece of kit for cops, has been very quiet on her sons upcoming trial whereby he spat at a cop and was so violent required use of a spit hood. The woman is a moron and unfit for office.

[Detournement]

4 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Diane Abbot, outspoken critic of police officers using spit hoods because she didnt feel use of them offered protection or was a necessary piece of kit for cops, has been very quiet on her sons upcoming trial whereby he spat at a cop and was so violent required use of a spit hood. The woman is a moron and unfit for office.

No need for the trial then if you know what happened. 

[SweeperDee]

6 hours ago, Detournement said:

In 2000 the Scottish results were Maths 533 (now 489), Reading 526 (now 504) and Science 522 (now 490).

Those are big drop offs.

 

You could argue that exams are getting harder, or PISA methodology is flawed (the tests can absolutely be gamed). 

Edited December 5, 2019 by SweeperDee

[SweeperDee]

Check for yourself. The PISA exams (or at least some of the questions) are online.

There’s been questions brought up about the robustness of its scoring and ability of it to effectively compare test scores from across the OECD.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24659369/

That’s not the only paper, but it’s the most cited one.

[tirso]

12 hours ago, oaksoft said:

In fairness there is no reason why those paths should diverge at 12 years of age.

It could easily happen at 16.

The one size fits all approach often fails those with the most potential.

I think there is some merit in looking at why private school teaching is so successful compared to that in state schools. It's not just about money.

The normal child in a private school is given extra support to get better grades.  The normal child in a state school is left to get on while the most brilliant and worst get the most attention.  just my observation.

money and the expectation that comes with it helps.  

I would ban them for the greater good but you can see why parents put them there.  It's a shame Scotland is going the way of England in the last decade or so when it comes to a class divide.

[Baxter Parp]

f**k these c***s.

[johnthebaptistist]

39 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Do you think so? In January private schools in Scotland will have to pay full whack rates. Can't be long before their charitable status itself is up for review.

If the Scottish parliment had a set of balls they would have included religious schools as well as removing their charitable status, see how much they are willing to pay for 'faith'

[tirso]

48 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Do you think so? In January private schools in Scotland will have to pay full whack rates. Can't be long before their charitable status itself is up for review.

Yes, I do.  I'm not in favour of them at all and that's good news.

I think some time ago  those with means didn't necessarily send their children to private school in the same way England does.  I think that's changed.  I admit I've no evidence to back that up but it feels that way.

I think it's really sad that children are disadvantaged from the beginning.  As I say it's the normal ones in the middle that suffer the most.  An average child at private school will be made to aim higher.  They're no smarter than their equivalent but they will have better grades.  It's upto the teachers in the state schools to get better as well.  Some of the results are appalling and have been for years.  Difficult but does it really have to be that way?  Just because someone's poor doesn't  make them thick.  I'm not saying it should be 80% pass 1st rates but they should be able to get general passes out of more than 20 odd percent of them.

 

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

No need for the trial then if you know what happened. 

Labour apologist in full deflection mode.

[Suspect Device]

3 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

 

 

f**k these c***s.

 

A bit misleading that tweet. Unless Priti Patel herself is actually coughing up the £100k. Which would be nice.

 

 

I'm assuming that WE are paying the £100k damages.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Suspect Device

[dorlomin]

Bit random perhaps but the noise machine that is Melanie Philips was let off the hook over the weekend and spouting some anti Muslim bollox, one of the points was the idea of Taqiyya its a old trick, introduce a term to affect a deep knowledge of a culture or group and then unveil your ability to detect their secretive inner workings. She knows some random Arabic word so now she can shine a like on the wiley minds of the jihadi's next door.....

Quote

Taqiyya is a practice whereby an individual may be less than fully truthful, when such an individual is reasonably afraid that the consequences of being fully truthful may place him or her into serious jeopardy by an oppressor. In other words, if telling the truth is going to place your life or wellbeing at risk, you can say what you need to survive and stay safe.

Except as explained in this article is a pretty common idea across many cultures 

Quote

 

This is hardly a controversial principle. In English law, for example, the doctrine of necessity is a defence for any accused, if it can be shown that the criminal act that the accused engaged in was the only one they could do in order to protect their lives. In Judaic law, to refer to a another religious tradition, the principle of pikuach nefesh has it that the preservation of human life overrides virtually any other religious rule — including telling the whole truth.

Can the doctrine of necessity be abused? Can the principle of pikuach nefesh be misapplied? Can taqiyya be practiced in an incorrect fashion? Of course. Is the risk of the abuse of a moral or legal principle grounds to dismiss an entire religion, or a system of common law? Of course not.

 

And its barely a known concept. 

Quote

It used to be that the very word taqiyya was scarcely known, even among Muslims. The word’s use was largely limited to Shi’i communities, who discussed it and its permissibility due to their minority status in majority Sunni communities, where they might have felt under duress. 

https://www.abc.net.au/religion/taqiyya-are-muslims-commanded-to-deceive/11771648

The article in The Times is a classic example of "Othering", taking the mundane and the ordinary human behaviours and trying to ascribe them to widespread moral failings across groups. 

[Billy Jean King]

Kids from better backgrounds with parents more willing to engage, smaller class sizes, far less disruptive behaviour, far fewer pupils with additional needs, better equiped. It's fairly obvious and it's hardly a level playing field comparing fee paying with non fee paying

What extra support are they getting in private schools which can justify the massive increase in grades?
And why would you ban the one schooling system which has been proven to get spectacular results? How does that help anyone?
ETA. Just read that Finland spend less per child on education than the UK or the US so it can't just be a money thing.
For me it's a combination of poor teaching ability and constant testing sucking the life out of schooling which is our problem. For example, I know for a fact that the education system here is continuing to accept people onto teacher training courses who don't even have an Honours degree in the subject they are teaching. This simply cannot be right.

[JMDP]

PISA tests are shite.  They offer next to nothing in terms of relevant insight. 

Always good to see Gincardine wade in stinking of turps, dishing out barely coherent hot takes in a subject he knows nothing about. You always love to see pub bores of his age drone on about grammar schools being the answer.

[DublinMagyar]

PISA tests are shite.  They offer next to nothing in terms of relevant insight. 
Always good to see Gincardine wade in stinking of turps, dishing out barely coherent hot takes in a subject he knows nothing about. You always love to see pub bores of his age drone on about grammar schools being the answer.

And workhouses for the thick (poor)

[The_Kincardine]

On 05/12/2019 at 14:43, tirso said:

The normal child in a private school is given extra support to get better grades.  The normal child in a state school is left to get on while the most brilliant and worst get the most attention.  just my observation.

money and the expectation that comes with it helps.  

I would ban them for the greater good but you can see why parents put them there.  It's a shame Scotland is going the way of England in the last decade or so when it comes to a class divide.

Why would banning private schools be for the greater good?

Edit:  We couldn't afford private education but we were lucky.  Bucks CC still has state grammar schools - places that value education above political nonsense.

Edited December 6, 2019 by The_Kincardine

[speckled tangerine]

23 hours ago, oaksoft said:

What extra support are they getting in private schools which can justify the massive increase in grades?

And why would you ban the one schooling system which has been proven to get spectacular results? How does that help anyone?

ETA. Just read that Finland spend less per child on education than the UK or the US so it can't just be a money thing.

For me it's a combination of poor teaching ability and constant testing sucking the life out of schooling which is our problem. For example, I know for a fact that the education system here is continuing to accept people onto teacher training courses who don't even have an Honours degree in the subject they are teaching. This simply cannot be right.

They appeal more unfavourable exam grades for one thing. Costs £/s/d to do that which state schools can't  afford.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/education/scottish-independent-schools-appeal-three-times-as-many-exam-results-1-5043545/amp

[The_Kincardine]

22 hours ago, JMDP said:

PISA tests are shite.  They offer next to nothing in terms of relevant insight. 

Always good to see Gincardine wade in stinking of turps, dishing out barely coherent hot takes in a subject he knows nothing about. You always love to see pub bores of his age drone on about grammar schools being the answer.

As far as you're concerned a 'PISA test' is evaluating Domino's vs Papa John's.  Let's face it, mate, you're as thick as pig shit.

As for grammar schools being the answer?  They are a part of it, for sure.  Not the whole solution by any measure but certainly an important piece of the jigsaw.