Dan Steele Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: To be fair to Latin. It does at least have a strong literary tradition behind it. There's a strong Gaelic literary tradition as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Any public money spent on anything vaguely cultural gets the type of moron who writes to local papers screaming about potholes and dog shit. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 8 hours ago, MixuFixit said: This isn't hard, just explain why you don't think Gaelic deserves a modestly higher profile. ^^^^Erse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: 8 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: ^^^^Erse. Just say why you think it is undeserved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redstarstranraer Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 2 hours ago, strichener said: The Scottish government...should be publishing all government documents, statistics etc. in Gaelic Totally agree, glad to see such strong support for the Gaelic 1 hour ago, MixuFixit said: Frankly if you struggle to read a bilingual road sign you should consider handing in your driving license. The signs are not principally about helping Gaelic speakers negotiate the central belt. Nor are they about showing Scotland to be different to England. I don't know though, not speaking a word of Gaelic personally I have to say that since moving from Galloway to Argyll I've found it quite hard to navigate with two languages on signposts. God knows I've lost count of the times I've been frustrated, smashing my head off the steering wheel in apoplexies of confusion as to whether Inbhir Aora is somewhere other than Inveraray. Not just me, the lines of tourists stranded on the A83 unable to determine if it is the road to Campbeltown or Ceann Loch Chille Chiarain is the bane of every summer. In all seriousness how insecure about yourself to do you have to be to get worked up about road signs featuring another language you don't happen to be fluent in? It costs nothing in the grand scheme of things and has zero effect on you personally. The fact that otherwise reasonable individuals get outraged by the idea of Gaelic being allowed some visibility outwith the areas they deem acceptable is truly baffling. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 My issue with Gaelic is that it seems like an attempt to create a national history that only reflects a small part of the country and a minority of the population. And funnily enough it's the part of the country that stuck with feudalism well into the 18th century. While this is going on lots of other parts of Scottish history are completely obscured. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: 5 minutes ago, Detournement said: My issue with Gaelic is that it seems like an attempt to create a national history that only reflects a small part of the country and a minority of the population. And funnily enough it's the part of the country that stuck with feudalism well into the 18th century. While this is going on lots of other parts of Scottish history are completely obscured. Which parts of Scottish history have been obscured by Gaelic road signs? Every road sign should have memorial to Red Clydeside and the Battle of George Square. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 1 minute ago, MixuFixit said: 4 minutes ago, Detournement said: My issue with Gaelic is that it seems like an attempt to create a national history that only reflects a small part of the country and a minority of the population. And funnily enough it's the part of the country that stuck with feudalism well into the 18th century. While this is going on lots of other parts of Scottish history are completely obscured. Which parts of Scottish history have been obscured by Gaelic road signs? It's not gaelic road signs it's promoting gaelic as a national language when it has never been that. It's not something which happens in Italy or Germany. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Every road sign should have memorial to Red Clydeside and the Battle of George Square. I was thinking a bit further back than that but it's not a bad idea. It's not any less relevant than Gaelic. Edited June 17, 2019 by Detournement 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, Redstarstranraer said: Totally agree, glad to see such strong support for the Gaelic I don't know though, not speaking a word of Gaelic personally I have to say that since moving from Galloway to Argyll I've found it quite hard to navigate with two languages on signposts. God knows I've lost count of the times I've been frustrated, smashing my head off the steering wheel in apoplexies of confusion as to whether Inbhir Aora is somewhere other than Inveraray. Not just me, the lines of tourists stranded on the A83 unable to determine if it is the road to Campbeltown or Ceann Loch Chille Chiarain is the bane of every summer. Given that tourism is a major factor in Scotland's economy, the confusion caused by dual signs should certainly be worthy of serious consideration. I would suggest that such confusion could be easily averted by simply giving the English wording more prominence on road signs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: Given that tourism is a major factor in Scotland's economy, the confusion caused by dual signs should certainly be worthy of serious consideration. I would suggest that such confusion could be easily averted by simply giving the English wording more prominence on road signs. You mean like how they already are? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Just now, MixuFixit said: 4 minutes ago, Detournement said: It's not gaelic road signs it's promoting gaelic as a national language when it has never been that. It's not something which happens in Italy or Germany. Ok then; what parts of Scottish history have been obscured by the promotion of Gaelic as a national language? The promotion of gaelic is part of a pattern of myth building. There are clearly areas of Scottish history which are promoted more than others. Wallace, the Bruce, Mary Stewart, Bonnie Prince Charlie are all things children learn about at primary school. The modern impression of the Jacobites as fighting for independence is completely ahistorical. I'd argue that the effects of the Norman Conquest in Scotland and the Reformation are obscured as they don't fit neatly into a national mythos and highlight domestic conflicts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: You mean like how they already are? That's a classic example of how to confuse anyone - not just tourists. Would it be out of order to have the English place names above the Gaelic names and maybe even displayed in a bolder text? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Detournement said: The promotion of gaelic is part of a pattern of myth building. There are clearly areas of Scottish history which are promoted more than others. Wallace, the Bruce, Mary Stewart, Bonnie Prince Charlie are all things children learn about at primary school. The modern impression of the Jacobites as fighting for independence is completely ahistorical. I'd argue that the effects of the Norman Conquest in Scotland and the Reformation are obscured as they don't fit neatly into a national mythos and highlight domestic conflicts. You'd rather have Norman French on the road signs? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Just now, ICTJohnboy said: That's a classic example of how to confuse anyone - not just tourists. Would it be out of order to have the English place names above the Gaelic names and maybe even displayed in a bolder text? Surrender your driving license, you're not fit to be on the road if that confuses you. And whatever you do don't go on holiday in Wales or Ireland, you'd get utterly lost. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 The promotion of gaelic is part of a pattern of myth building. There are clearly areas of Scottish history which are promoted more than others. Wallace, the Bruce, Mary Stewart, Bonnie Prince Charlie are all things children learn about at primary school. The modern impression of the Jacobites as fighting for independence is completely ahistorical. I'd argue that the effects of the Norman Conquest in Scotland and the Reformation are obscured as they don't fit neatly into a national mythos and highlight domestic conflicts.Promoted by whom? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Just now, pandarilla said: Promoted by whom? The dominant social class obvs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Surrender your driving license, you're not fit to be on the road if that confuses you. And whatever you do don't go on holiday in Wales or Ireland, you'd get utterly lost. I've driven all round Ireland without any major problems. Why the f**k would anyone of sound mind wish to visit Wales? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, pandarilla said: Promoted by whom? The Western Isles neoliberal elites presumably. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redstarstranraer Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Detournement said: The promotion of gaelic is part of a pattern of myth building. Which I'm sure you can evidence as part of a systemic, ideologically driven agenda connected to road signs and isn't a topos of threat that you've dreamt up without any supporting proof. 5 minutes ago, Detournement said: There are clearly areas of Scottish history which are promoted more than others. Wallace, the Bruce, Mary Stewart, Bonnie Prince Charlie are all things children learn about at primary school. Basic facts about Scottish history should clearly be taught at primary school. Certain historical narratives are always promoted above others but I don't think there is any evidence whatsoever of a nationalist-driven primary school curriculum. Not sure what this has to do with road signs. 7 minutes ago, Detournement said: The modern impression of the Jacobites as fighting for independence is completely ahistorical Again I don't know what evidence there is for this being an agenda consciously fostered by the authorities. Still not sure what this has to do with road signs. Are the Jacobites only relevant to Gaelic speakers? 9 minutes ago, Detournement said: I'd argue that the effects of the Norman Conquest in Scotland and the Reformation are obscured as they don't fit neatly into a national mythos and highlight domestic conflicts. I'd argue that the effects of Norman influence (when did the conquest happen up here out of interest?) and the reformation are under-explored but that has sod all to do with road signs. But yeah, the ruling class is promoting Gaelic to suppress Scotland's history of class war and to bolster support for feudalism, or something 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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