Detournement Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 (edited) Would it not be more likely that there would be an option for some drivers to contract more hours than an across the board wage rise to cover the loss of OT? Edited June 2, 2022 by Detournement 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Detournement said: Would it not be more likely that there would be an option for some drivers to contract more hours than an across the board wage rise to cover the loss of OT? Given the current shambles caused by them collectively declining to work overtime, why should they be offered this? If access to overtime is so important to them then they should think carefully about using it to hold the country to ransom. Edited June 2, 2022 by Todd_is_God 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 holding the country to ransom by providing the central belt with a significantly better train service than the rest of the country gets 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 8 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: Given the current shambles caused by them collectively declining to work overtime, why should they be offered this? If access to overtime is so important to them then they should think carefully about using it to hold the country to ransom. If they have the hours contracted to them then they have to work it so it wouldn't be an issue going forward. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 5 hours ago, welshbairn said: He seemed to be saying they could do a deal within the stated budget, which implies it's movement on terms and conditions he's after rather than more money. He was, however only for the current "pay rise" part. Anything which meant that the organisation was fully staffed and their people lost the shifts (which allegedly they don't want) will be further negotiations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 17 minutes ago, Leith Green said: He was, however only for the current "pay rise" part. Anything which meant that the organisation was fully staffed and their people lost the shifts (which allegedly they don't want) will be further negotiations. It's going to be a minimum of a year, probably a lot longer if ever, before there is no need for overtime. I doubt the haggling is over that at the moment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 6 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Actually, that is precisely where this is all heading. Driverless trains and buses are coming whether people like it or not. We cannot have services like transport repeatedly held to ransom like this by people who are already earning good money. I remember seeing an advert for bus drivers in Edinburgh fairly recently. Money wasn’t great tbf. Guess their union can’t rely on unofficial industrial action as leverage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Driverless trains and buses might be coming, but that's decades away should it ever happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: Driverless trains and buses might be coming, but that's decades away should it ever happen. Thats before you even get to the debate about whether or not its a good thing because it can be used to squeeze the terms and conditions of humans in the run up to the total loss of their livlihoods..... Not sure how much longer the "but it will free the human race up to pursue the things they like doing" argument is going to hold up in the face of rampant inequality like we've never seen before. It will take the Hunger Games just being "Tuesday" before some folk wake up. Edited June 2, 2022 by Bairnardo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: Before you get to the debate about whether or not its a good thing because it can be sued to squeeze the terms and conditions of humans in the run up to the total loss of their livlihoods... Train drivers are not having their terms and conditions squeezed, though. They have decided to withdraw their labour in order to strongarm Scotrail into giving them more money. And their union rep appears to be indicating that they will also be pushing later for compensation for loss of income once that overtime they claim to not want to do is no longer necessary. If their opportunistic greed accelerates the development and deployment of driverless trains, ultimately resulting in the total loss of their livelihoods, then whose fault is that? Edited June 2, 2022 by Todd_is_God 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 24 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: Train drivers are not having their terms and conditions squeezed, though. They have decided to withdraw their labour in order to strongarm Scotrail into giving them more money. And their union rep appears to be indicating that they will also be pushing later for compensation for loss of income once that overtime they claim to not want to do is no longer necessary. If their opportunistic greed accelerates the development and deployment of driverless trains, ultimately resulting in the total loss of their livelihoods, then whose fault is that? Same as all issues in society. Torys will get the blame. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 27 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: Train drivers are not having their terms and conditions squeezed, though. They have decided to withdraw their labour in order to strongarm Scotrail into giving them more money. And their union rep appears to be indicating that they will also be pushing later for compensation for loss of income once that overtime they claim to not want to do is no longer necessary. If their opportunistic greed accelerates the development and deployment of driverless trains, ultimately resulting in the total loss of their livelihoods, then whose fault is that? The automation of peoples jobs is totally separate debate tbh, probably well worth a thread in its own right. But I certainly don't think a pishy wee Scotrail trains dispute can be blamed for hastening the advancement of this type of technology on a worldwide scale. Theres no one signing off unlimited overtime over at Boston Dynamics because a few trains got cancelled in Scotland. I certainly don't see a single advantage for society in handing peoples jobs over to machines. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 I certainly don't see a single advantage for society in handing peoples jobs over to machines. Seriously? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: I certainly don't think a pishy wee Scotrail trains dispute can be blamed for hastening the advancement of this type of technology on a worldwide scale. No, but it may hasten the rollout of the required infrastructure across the rail network in Scotland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 52 minutes ago, Left Back said: I remember seeing an advert for bus drivers in Edinburgh fairly recently. Money wasn’t great tbf. Guess their union can’t rely on unofficial industrial action as leverage. Lothian buses - Trainee drivers £25500, qualified drivers £29500. First Group (Glasgow) appear to pay qualified drivers about £27000 Broadly average salary for the UK as a whole. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 11 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said: Seriously? Other than maybe taking people out of extremely dangerous situations, but the likes of automated vehicles, trains, buses etc, no. I think its a really fucking shit road humanity is on with the obsession for putting folk out of work in favour of machines. Its not going to benefit the masses. I dont know how much widening inequality in society folk need to see before they get that. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Todd is obviously having to shell out for a taxi this weekend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: Other than maybe taking people out of extremely dangerous situations, but the likes of automated vehicles, trains, buses etc, no. I think its a really fucking shit road humanity is on with the obsession for putting folk out of work in favour of machines. Its not going to benefit the masses. I dont know how much widening inequality in society folk need to see before they get that. I cant wait to get a Johnny Cab with a red faced swivel headed robo-driver tbqhwy......... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 14 minutes ago, Leith Green said: Lothian buses - Trainee drivers £25500, qualified drivers £29500. First Group (Glasgow) appear to pay qualified drivers about £27000 Broadly average salary for the UK as a whole. May well be roughly the going rate but £30k a year doesn’t go far in Edinburgh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 6 minutes ago, Detournement said: Todd is obviously having to shell out for a taxi this weekend. I'd have more chance of getting a train home than a fucking taxi tbf. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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