19QOS19 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 Poster simply states a fact - that there's an ongoing ballot on the matter which hasn't even closed yet, let alone the votes been counted and announced. The topic being discussed was executive pay within Scotrail where there has been no industrial action, and no pay deal has been agreed. Pretty simple stuff that the writer of the article really should have got right. It's entirely possible that strike action could still be called and the post quoted by [mention=12169]19QOS19[/mention] is completely wrong and misleading, yet a simple clarification still attracts down votes from the usual suspects?. Some place.!!Ooft. Wouldn't have known it had been down voted tbh as the TapaTalk only shows up votes. Aye, I'm not sure what part of that factually correct post upset people but here we are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'WellDel Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 20 minutes ago, virginton said: 'No industrial action on Scotrail' claim, while the service has been a complete nick for months in direct causation to the unions stalling over a pay deal = not actually legit. Isn't negotiating, rather than stalling, the correct term here? The union have negotiated a deal with the company which has now been put to its members to vote on. These things take time, and if the deal had been remotely acceptable to said members in the first instance, the voting process could have been avoided completely. It's never the case though, and companies always lowball to start with, causing it to draw out and the knock-on disruption as a result. Still a statement of fact. The deal may well be accepted in the next couple of weeks, but to date there has been no industrial action by Scotrail employees, who are completely within their rights in their actions so far. I hope every worker, in every union, in every sector which is currently at odds with their employer - from transport to health care, the cooncil to the polis, stands up and fights for what they are due. The police, for example, in their removal of voluntary, unpaid overtime at the start/end of their day for shift hand overs or writing up reports. More power to them and hopefully it helps in their negotiations The entire country is currently being fucked over on all fronts financially, and needs to stand up collectively, by whatever means they can to fight back. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self-raising Lazarus Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 This wave of strikes is a direct result of 12 years of austerity. People forget the Cameron Osborne "tighten your belt" patter, which was never actually reversed. For all the claims of pay rises fuelling Inflation I'd be interested in a comparison of top 1% pay and median pay over the last 12 years. And for anyone suggesting there shouldn't be strikes as other people are suffering too, how long do workers, especially unionised, put up with deliberate and concerted efforts to drive down their wages and conditions? Get this government and neoliberalism to **** 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 This is about America but it's probably similar over here. Quote Growth of CEO compensation (1978–2018). From 1978 to 2018, inflation-adjusted compensation based on realized stock options of the top CEOs increased 940.3%. The increase was more than 25–33% greater than stock market growth (depending on which stock market index is used) and substantially greater than the painfully slow 11.9% growth in a typical worker’s annual compensation over the same period. Measured using the value of stock options granted, CEO compensation rose 1,007.5% from 1978 to 2018. https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-2018/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParsJake Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 55 minutes ago, Self-raising Lazarus said: This wave of strikes is a direct result of 12 years of austerity. People forget the Cameron Osborne "tighten your belt" patter Ah yes, a couple of Eton-educated runts trying to kid on "we're all in it together" and telling us "we" had to make savings. c***s. Had forgotten about that and now I'm in a mood... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'WellDel Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 The man at the top of Scotlands Railways' pay has increased by £80k over the last five years. You don't need a calculator or masters in mathematics to deduce that the annual uplifts there are a little in excess of the measly couple of % they're trumpeting as a fair deal to everyone else. I would imagine similar rises are broadly the case for many CEO's across the country, yet those in the boardrooms have the gall to tell everyone below them that there is insufficient funding to sanction wage rises better than the (far below inflation) offerings they are currently tabling. All the bickering in the world on boards like this doesn't change the fact that there is money there, it's just being badly handled and misdirected. Profiteering by company leaders and government is at an all time high, whilst the rest of the country bears the brunt. It's a fucking scandal and people need to be brave enough to fight it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said: The next "offer" will be a never ending mortgage In England they have Leasehold whereby you buy the property but never own the land it's built on. Both are alike, where you keep paying for fuckall. Edited July 2, 2022 by Zen Archer (Raconteur) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, 'WellDel said: Isn't negotiating, rather than stalling, the correct term here? The union have negotiated a deal with the company which has now been put to its members to vote on. These things take time, and if the deal had been remotely acceptable to said members in the first instance, the voting process could have been avoided completely. It's never the case though, and companies always lowball to start with, causing it to draw out and the knock-on disruption as a result. Still a statement of fact. The deal may well be accepted in the next couple of weeks, but to date there has been no industrial action by Scotrail employees, who are completely within their rights in their actions so far. Erm no there has been industrial action by Scotrail employees. It's just industrial action short of a strike - which people in the UK bizarrely view as the only possible form of significant industrial action. No serious analysis of labour disputes would agree with that. All the Scotrail drivers have done is the modern equivalent of the classic slow-down tactics in a factory dispute. They don't have to hold a formal vote and declare that they will only work at 50% of the intensity they did before, for everyone to be fully aware that the employee behaviour is linked explicitly to an ongoing industrial dispute. Given that strikes are almost always hopeless failures I'd say that the Scotrail drivers have played their cards better than many other groups. But the idea that the public should pay for this with a nonsense non-service for months on end remains risible. Edited July 2, 2022 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 9 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said: My son had to take one like that, his might even be 40. The positives are, it's a start, his repayment is much less than rent. But he knows he'll need to up the money and shorten the time when he renews his deal. The next "offer" will be a never ending mortgage, which isn't unlike the latest proposal. We called it a council house in my day. You already get a never ending mortgage. My mother in law had an interest only mortgage. The theory being the house value increases. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: You already get a never ending mortgage. My mother in law had an interest only mortgage. The theory being the house value increases. Thought with interest only you had to demonstrate a mechanism that would be able to repay the capital at the end of the mortgage term? Typically that was an endowment but it could be a pension or any other form of saving. You couldn’t just perpetually pay the interest is my understanding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19QOS19 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 Erm no there has been industrial action by Scotrail employees. Erm, no there hasn't. Not working your days off isn't industrial action. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'WellDel Posted July 3, 2022 Share Posted July 3, 2022 10 hours ago, 19QOS19 said: Erm, no there hasn't. Not working your days off isn't industrial action. I've given up. You type statements of simple, actual facts, yet you know you're going to get a down vote and a nonsensical reply before you even click to post it. I'll happily debate with anyone on any thread I read on here and take their views on board but, as seems to have been the case for a long time, the poster in question would argue black was white all day long and it gets tiresome, tedious and boring. First person I've ever stuck on ignore and I think I will enjoy the forum experience all the more for it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted July 3, 2022 Share Posted July 3, 2022 20 hours ago, ParsJake said: Ah yes, a couple of Eton-educated runts trying to kid on "we're all in it together" and telling us "we" had to make savings. c***s. Had forgotten about that and now I'm in a mood... Osborne attended St Paul's. There's diversity for you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Brazil Forever Posted July 3, 2022 Share Posted July 3, 2022 13 hours ago, 19QOS19 said: Erm, no there hasn't. Not working your days off isn't industrial action. I think the word "Duck" applies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted July 3, 2022 Share Posted July 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, oaksoft said: My neighbour's property is recorded as feudal - no idea what that is all about. Nothing anymore. But it used to mean you had to pay a fee each year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiGi Posted July 3, 2022 Share Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) All properties in Scotland are feudal I think. Which means you do own the land as well. Not sure of the legalities when it comes to flats etc. Edit to add were* feudal. It's now classed as ownership. Edited July 3, 2022 by GiGi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 3, 2022 Share Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, 19QOS19 said: Erm, no there hasn't. Not working your days off isn't industrial action. An organised withdrawal of goodwill is industrial action and that's exactly what's going on here. It's what the police are also planning to do in response to their pay offer. Edited July 3, 2022 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac.i Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 9 hours ago, virginton said: An organised withdrawal of goodwill is industrial action and that's exactly what's going on here. It's what the police are also planning to do in response to their pay offer. The difference and where pedantry rules is that drivers decided to stop doing overtime when the ballot papers were sent out for Industrial Action. In order for it to be legally classed as such the ballot would need to be in favour of action short of a strike (not doing overtime etc) or strike and the company given 7(iirc) days notice. So technically not industrial action but having the same effect... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 1 minute ago, mac.i said: The difference and where pedantry rules is that drivers decided to stop doing overtime when the ballot papers were sent out for Industrial Action. In order for it to be legally classed as such the ballot would need to be in favour of action short of a strike (not doing overtime etc) or strike and the company given 7(iirc) days notice. So technically not industrial action but having the same effect... That can’t be true. We’ve been told many times that the drivers all decided at the same time to spend more time with their families. Nothing the union did or said influenced that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac.i Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 1 minute ago, Left Back said: That can’t be true. We’ve been told many times that the drivers all decided at the same time to spend more time with their families. Nothing the union did or said influenced that. You would notice my careful wording... That is the legal status, I don't even know if the result of the ballot was announced. I do know unions have to be very careful around these things and companies can go to court if they can evidence wrongdoing around ballots and unofficial action. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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