Scotrail

[vikingTON]

59 minutes ago, Left Back said:

How do you know his kids have never gone to school hungry and have had this “perfect” life?

You’re making some pretty big assumptions.  For all you know the OP has struggled financially to bring up his kids and they could have had none of the things you assumed.

I know loads of people that had none of the advantages you listed but now have some assets.

It's completely irrelevant how a family derived their assets - their sprogs should not be entitled to an enormous leg-up over their peers based on zero merit of their own, when the state has both a purpose and a need to tax unearned wealth. And is already taxing genuinely earned wealth at a much higher rate.

If you want to see how your bizarre, wagon-circling defence of plucky families merely handing down their assets in turn works out for a society, see the absolute nick that was 'European feudalism, 500-~1789). 

Edited June 24, 2022 by vikingTON

[Left Back]

7 minutes ago, virginton said:

It's completely irrelevant how a family derived their assets - their sprogs should not be entitled to an enormous leg-up over their peers based on zero merit of their own, when the state has both a purpose and a need to tax unearned wealth. And is already taxing genuinely earned wealth at a much higher rate.

If you want to see how your bizarre, wagon-circling defence of plucky families merely handing down their assets in turn works out for a society, see the absolute nick that was 'European feudalism, 500-~1789). 

If you could point out where I defended plucky families handing down assets that would be useful.

I wouldn’t want to drag you away from your wee rant though so I’ll happily wait until you’ve calmed down.

[SuperSaints1877]

Many people start out with absolutely nothing and make many sacrifices throughout their life working multiple jobs or starting their own business far from where they were brought up. If they make a success of that and decide to pass on that knowledge and help their kids get a start in life financially then who are we to judge?

The alternative is that we live like old style Russian or Chinese states where the people in power held all the aces. 

I have and always will fight the corner of the working man, but I am certainly not going to criticise anyone who chooses to make their life or family better by getting on in life. 

I still hate Tories though!

There are too many fat cats in our society who play the system to suit themselves. I also detest many charities for the amount of money that is paid out to those at director or CEO level. 

[vikingTON]

24 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Many people start out with absolutely nothing and make many sacrifices throughout their life working multiple jobs or starting their own business far from where they were brought up. If they make a success of that and decide to pass on that knowledge and help their kids get a start in life financially then who are we to judge?

The alternative is that we live like old style Russian or Chinese states where the people in power held all the aces.

Lol wut

Neoliberal capitalism both provides the people in power with all the aces, as well as limitless power to produce more aces (asset-price hyperinflation backed by central banks printing money; index-linked capital funds; compound interest). There is no version of the game yet produced that is more fundamentally rigged than this one. 

Edited June 24, 2022 by vikingTON

[SuperSaints1877]

9 minutes ago, virginton said:

Lol wut

Neoliberal capitalism both provides the people in power with all the aces, as well as limitless power to produce more aces (asset-price hyperinflation backed by central banks printing money; index-linked capital funds; compound interest). There is no version of the game yet produced that is more fundamentally rigged than this one. 

So you don’t like to see long term unemployed people make a success of themselves just because of your insane ideology?

There has never been a better time to be alive and take advantage of a global marketplace via the power of a mobile phone. 

How many jobs have you had over your lifetime? Have you ever run your own business? 

I’m told you are just a failed history teacher.

You might have big words but you certainly don’t have any big ideas, entrepreneurship or a hard work ethic to make a success of your life. 

You are jealous of people becoming successful despite them starting out with nothing. No handouts. Failed education system. Broken homes.

I feel sorry for you. 

[Cosmic Joe]

11 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

So you don’t like to see long term unemployed people make a success of themselves just because of your insane ideology?

There has never been a better time to be alive and take advantage of a global marketplace via the power of a mobile phone. 

How many jobs have you had over your lifetime? Have you ever run your own business? 

I’m told you are just a failed history teacher.

You might have big words but you certainly don’t have any big ideas, entrepreneurship or a hard work ethic to make a success of your life. 

You are jealous of people becoming successful despite them starting out with nothing. No handouts. Failed education system. Broken homes.

I feel sorry for you. 

Hmmm, I'm not entirely sure we should be driven by taking advantage of anything or anyone. 

I think we should be driven by looking after each other. 

Apologies if this sounds like liberal/ socialist crap. 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

11 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

So you don’t like to see long term unemployed people make a success of themselves just because of your insane ideology?

There has never been a better time to be alive and take advantage of a global marketplace via the power of a mobile phone. 

How many jobs have you had over your lifetime? Have you ever run your own business? 

I’m told you are just a failed history teacher.

You might have big words but you certainly don’t have any big ideas, entrepreneurship or a hard work ethic to make a success of your life. 

You are jealous of people becoming successful despite them starting out with nothing. No handouts. Failed education system. Broken homes.

I feel sorry for you. 

The bold tale of the long-term unemployed person making a success of themselves is virtually impossible now. Check out the Universal Credit rules for the self-employed for a kick-off/Minimum Income Floor for a kick off. Starting your own business is a massive gamble which essentially has to pay off within 12 months, or you're fucked.

If you're unskilled and stuck in a long-term unemployment hole your choices in 99.99% of cases either staying in it with the fun-packed world of sanctions hanging over you like the Sword of Damocles, or a shite minimum wage job with dreadful conditions in some dive like Sports Direct.

 

[VincentGuerin]

2 hours ago, Left Back said:

How do you know his kids have never gone to school hungry and have had this “perfect” life?

You’re making some pretty big assumptions.  For all you know the OP has struggled financially to bring up his kids and they could have had none of the things you assumed.

I know loads of people that had none of the advantages you listed but now have some assets.

I don't know. But I'm making a generalised point.

People who have money to give their weans enough for a house deposit have generally already provided them a very good start in life. It's not about having a 'perfect' life, it's about being handed a massive head-start in life and then onto the property market. It's fundamentally wrong. HKHibee's kids are starting the 100m race of life about 50m ahead of a lot of their peers. There's no reason for that. It's wrong. I don't understand how anyone could sit back and consider that and be genuinely ok with that. Certainly not someone who actually has a grasp of what social justice is.

Again, it's nothing personal with HKHibee at all. He don't make the roolz etc.

'I know loads of people who...' just distorts the conversation. How wealth moves, or, more accurately doesn't move, around our society is extremely well attested to. The odd anecdotal outlier is irrelevant.

Edited June 24, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[Left Back]

2 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I don't know. But I'm making a generalised point.

People who have money to give their weans enough for a house deposit have generally already provided them a very good start in life. It's not about having a 'perfect' life, it's about being handed a massive head-start in life and then onto the property market. It's fundamentally wrong. HKHibee's kids are starting the 100m race of life about 50m ahead of a lot of their peers. There's no reason for that. It's wrong. I don't understand how anyone could sit back and consider that and be genuinely ok with that. Certainly not someone who actually has a grasp of what social justice is.

'I know loads of people who...' just distorts the conversation. How wealth moves, or, more accurately doesn't move, around our society is extremely well attested to. The odd anecdotal outlier is irrelevant.

What’s your solution then?  Everyone’s assets are forfeit to the state when they die?

[VincentGuerin]

10 minutes ago, Left Back said:

What’s your solution then?  Everyone’s assets are forfeit to the state when they die?

How long have you got?

I'd set an extremely high level of inheritance tax. But I'd also massively simplify the tax system.

The only reason it is currently so complicated is that it allows the wealthy access to lawyers and accountants who can help them explot the loopholes they have left for themselves in the system. Make it really simple, a blanket income tax rate with no exemptions or loopholes. Just collect the revenue.

Same for corporations. Pay your corporation tax or you get shut down. No deals. No ifs. No buts. No loopholes. You pay up or you close.

There is plenty of money in the world. But we have allowed those with money to construct a system that allows them to just keep it all and f**k everyone else.

People were outraged at the idea of the Super League and rich football clubs creating a system that allowed them to use their riches to further enrich themselves and f**k everyone else. Yet, that's exactly how our society works, and people are cool with it.

p.s. I like trains and use Scotrail ones often.

Edited June 24, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[Theaccman]

Can we get the last few hours moved to the politics forum.

The rest of us want to get back to some scotrail bashing.

[SweeperDee]

Can we get the last few hours moved to the politics forum.
The rest of us want to get back to some scotrail bashing.

From my experience around 50% of conductors are dour faced c***s, the other 50% are sound.

[Left Back]

8 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

How long have you got?

I'd set an extremely high level of inheritance tax. But I'd also massively simplify the tax system.

The only reason it is currently so complicated is that it allows the wealthy access to lawyers and accountants who can help them explot the loopholes they have left for themselves in the system. Make it really simple, a blanket income tax rate with no exemptions or loopholes. Just collect the revenue.

Same for corporations. Pay your corporation tax or you get shut down. No deals. No ifs. No buts. No loopholes. You pay up or you close.

There is plenty of money in the world. But we have allowed those with money to construct a system that allows them to just keep it all and f**k everyone else.

People were outraged at the idea of the Super League and rich football clubs creating a system that allowed them to use their riches to further enrich themselves and f**k everyone else. Yet, that's exactly how our society works, and people are cool with it.

You’re off on a crusade.

Wee Shug that has dragged himself out of the gutter against all odds because his parents couldn’t give him a deposit on a house is who we’re talking about here.

lawyers and accountants must be cheap round wee Shug’s way if he’s dodging the revenue to leave his house to his kids.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Left Back

[Todd_is_God]

I'm not entirely convinced the real problem here is children inheriting modest homes in newbuild estates from their parents.

Most would surely sell them to pay off their own mortgage, thus both returning the house to the pool of available housing, and freeing up money for them to re-invest in the economy?

[SuperSaints1877]

26 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

The bold tale of the long-term unemployed person making a success of themselves is virtually impossible now. Check out the Universal Credit rules for the self-employed for a kick-off/Minimum Income Floor for a kick off. Starting your own business is a massive gamble which essentially has to pay off within 12 months, or you're fucked.

If you're unskilled and stuck in a long-term unemployment hole your choices in 99.99% of cases either staying in it with the fun-packed world of sanctions hanging over you like the Sword of Damocles, or a shite minimum wage job with dreadful conditions in some dive like Sports Direct.

 

Sorry I have to disagree. Let’s leave it at that. Agree to disagree. 

[VincentGuerin]

6 minutes ago, Left Back said:

You’re off on a crusade.

Wee Shug that has dragged himself out of the gutter against all odds because his parents couldn’t give him a deposit on a house is who we’re talking about here.

lawyers and accountants must be cheap round wee Shug’s way if he’s dodging the revenue to leave his house to his kids.

A crusade for a fair society? 100% Anyway, I honestly don't understand what you're getting at. I don't see how Wee Shug is bothered by what I propose.

6 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I'm not entirely convinced the real problem here is children inheriting modest homes in newbuild estates from their parents.

Most would surely sell them to pay off their own mortgage, thus both returning the house to the pool of available housing, and freeing up money for them to re-invest in the economy?

You believe in trickle down economics? I've got these magic beans you may be interested in.

Anyway, I'm going to leave this for the Scotrail bashing now to avoid incurring more wrath.

Edited June 24, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[Scary Bear]

7 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I don't know. But I'm making a generalised point.

People who have money to give their weans enough for a house deposit have generally already provided them a very good start in life. It's not about having a 'perfect' life, it's about being handed a massive head-start in life and then onto the property market. It's fundamentally wrong. HKHibee's kids are starting the 100m race of life about 50m ahead of a lot of their peers. There's no reason for that. It's wrong. I don't understand how anyone could sit back and consider that and be genuinely ok with that. Certainly not someone who actually has a grasp of what social justice is.

Again, it's nothing personal with HKHibee at all. He don't make the roolz etc.

'I know loads of people who...' just distorts the conversation. How wealth moves, or, more accurately doesn't move, around our society is extremely well attested to. The odd anecdotal outlier is irrelevant.

‘It’s fundamentally wrong’ - Why? 

Why are folk so het up about folk trying to help their families out? What is the point of working hard if you can’t help your family out. You’d be as well just giving up and not trying. Then we can all be equally feckless and it’ll be fair.

After seeing the efforts of ‘the state’ why are they so keen to see individuals give all their hard earned wealth away to the state? Do they think the state will suddenly become dynamic and sort out all the ills of the world?

[SuperSaints1877]

20 minutes ago, Left Back said:

What’s your solution then?  Everyone’s assets are forfeit to the state when they die?

Oh aye. Let’s fund Trident, the Royal family, MPs, House of Lords, the armed forces, HS2, the London Underground, illegal wars and fox hunting Tory cnuts.

Where do I sign away my lifetime endeavours to?

[Left Back]

3 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I honestly don't understand what you're getting at. I don't see how Wee Shug is bothered by what I propose.

Wee Shug has to forfeit his house (and the rest of his belongings) to the state under your inheritance tax system.

No-one gave him a penny towards it.  He worked for it.  I’d suspect he’d be bothered.

[Left Back]

9 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Oh aye. Let’s fund Trident, the Royal family, MPs, House of Lords, the armed forces, HS2, the London Underground, illegal wars and fox hunting Tory cnuts.

Where do I sign away my lifetime endeavours to?

You forgot Crossrail and the parliament refurb.