vikingTON Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Seems to me the best way to mitigate fare dodging, given the number of unmanned stations, would simply be to employ someone on a decent salary to check and sell tickets, with maybe a small commission to incentivise due diligence. ...Except that the person employed to do this currently has stated that fare dodging is a "massive problem". So clearly that doesn't work either. Personally I don't think it is anywhere near as massive a problem for the railway system as people state. At least not compared to: • grifting parasite 'franchise operators' • completely disjointed tickets and operators (mostly England) • Covid being used as a shite excuse to scrap cheap tickets and ban alcohol indefinitely • incompetent management setting bare minimum staffing requirements and cooking the timetables to avoid penalties for delays • obsolete jobs for the boys being preserved (see train guards - a ludicrous, nonsense, non-job in 2022) • syndicalist unions that have no grasp of reality Given all of the above, they frankly should be paying passengers to use the service, rather than have the temerity to charge double digits to travel to Glasgow (for example) before 9am on a work day. Edited June 17, 2022 by vikingTON 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 It costs about £6.50 return from Dumfries to Carlisle on our line. That's roughly a 70 mile round trip. There is absolutely no other way you could travel that distance for such a cheap price - you still get folk dodging the fare. Similarly it's about 90p between stations on the East Kilbride line for kids and they will dodge every single day. The price is irrelevant for a large portion of fare dodgers. It could be 10p and they would still try and avoid paying. Some folk just don't want to pay. It’s probably cheaper because who the f**k actually wants to go to Carlisle? By comparison, it’s now £9.40 for a single between Perth and Dundee. A 22 minute journey. A day return is £7.60 and if you fancied staying the night in Dundee and coming back the following day, it’s £18.40. Absurd. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 9 hours ago, IrishBhoy said: The majority of the stations in the Western Central belt have barrier entry now, certainly most of the ones I frequent. If you are travelling from a station like Lochwinnoch for example, where there is no barrier, and travelling to Glasgow Central, then unless you come across a conductor on board and buy a ticket, then you will be unable to get through the turnstiles when you arrive at Central. It's semantics, but on Ayr/Gourock and most of the Strathclyde electric lines you don't have conductors but ticket examiners who are lower paid and their job is solely a customer service role to check and sell tickets. A conductor has a more of a role in train operation - opening and closing doors, needs to have route and traction knowledge and various other safety factors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 1 hour ago, 'WellDel said: In response to another poster who stated that the salary for the position was 'wild'. Higher than the average it may be, but still very firmly in the working class bracket. I don't think earning a wee bit of commission on top of it would quite have them leafing through brochures for a new yacht. A starting salary of £33k plus incentives (if this is accurate) is far more than a teacher receives at the start of their career. A teacher is not a working class position and never has been. If Mr. Conductor is lucky enough to meet future Mrs Conductor then their household earnings would be in the region of £70k. This is not working class by any serious definition either. Only in Scotland* does 99% of society desperately try to insist on their dyed in the wool working-class status, brooking no comparison in the process. * maybe Wales as well, but who really cares about them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonksy+HisChristianParade Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 53 minutes ago, 'WellDel said: In response to another poster who stated that the salary for the position was 'wild'. Higher than the average it may be, but still very firmly in the working class bracket. I don't think earning a wee bit of commission on top of it would quite have them leafing through brochures for a new yacht. . It’s an unskilled job that anyone could do and, with commission and final salary pension, is a comparable (if not better) package than jobs that actually require qualifications such as teachers, nurses etc. All I did was express my surprise at this impressive salary and you jumped in as martyr for the poor downtrodden train conductors to defend their pay for some reason. Good for them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19QOS19 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 It’s probably cheaper because who the f**k actually wants to go to Carlisle? By comparison, it’s now £9.40 for a single between Perth and Dundee. A 22 minute journey. A day return is £7.60 and if you fancied staying the night in Dundee and coming back the following day, it’s £18.40. Absurd.Well lots of people evidently. The location is irrelevant. Make your examples a fiver each and it still wouldn't deter dodgers. The price is absolutely irrelevant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, jamamafegan said: It’s probably cheaper because who the f**k actually wants to go to Carlisle? By comparison, it’s now £9.40 for a single between Perth and Dundee. A 22 minute journey. A day return is £7.60 and if you fancied staying the night in Dundee and coming back the following day, it’s £18.40. Absurd. That's the same on the Aberdeen to Inverness line, it's cheaper to buy 2x day returns if you're not returning the same day, and no advance returns. Pisses me right off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said: For it to be effective you'd need to have someone with that authority on every single train. No you don't. 21 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said: even the threat that they may board your train won't put fare dodgers off. It will put off some certainly but the repeat offenders won't give a f**k. They will when they are facing penalty fares of £1,000 for repeatedly doing so. Edited June 17, 2022 by Todd_is_God 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 I just looked at the job advert for a conductor. the training period is up to 6 months. What on earth do they need to learn that could take 6 months? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19QOS19 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 They will when they are facing penalty fares of £1,000 for repeatedly doing so.How will you determine if they are repeat offenders? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishBhoy Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: No you don't. They will when they are facing penalty fares of £1,000 for repeatedly doing so. To be honest, if I got fined £1000 for skipping a £6 rail fare there is absolutely no chance I would be paying that voluntarily, it’s not proportionate to the punishment. About 30% of people in employment in the UK don’t have £1000 in savings, let’s not bankrupt people because they denied a rail franchise a few quid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishBhoy Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 12 minutes ago, Left Back said: I just looked at the job advert for a conductor. the training period is up to 6 months. What on earth do they need to learn that could take 6 months? The conductor will need to have a basic understanding of how the train operates, what to do if the train breaks down, how to safely deal with a derailment/train crash, how to deal with someone who has been electrocuted, how to deal with fatalities on the track etc etc. That’s just off the top of my head I’m sure there is much more involved in the role that I’ve missed. It’s hardly the sort of job you walk into straight off the street. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 What sort of salary would count as a working class job? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said: To be honest, if I got fined £1000 for skipping a £6 rail fare there is absolutely no chance I would be paying that voluntarily, it’s not proportionate to the punishment. You wouldn't be getting a £1,000 penalty fare for skipping a £6 rail fare - You would be getting a penalty fare of £1,000 for being caught repeatedly not paying your £6 fare. The standard rail penalty fare in the UK, btw, is £20 or 2 x the value of your fare, whichever is greater. For the umpteenth time too, payment of rail fares / penalty fares is not voluntary - fare aversion is a criminal offence. How much of a dick would you feel if you ended up with a criminal record for repeatedly not paying a £6 fare? Edited June 17, 2022 by Todd_is_God 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 21 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said: How will you determine if they are repeat offenders? How can this be a serious question? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19QOS19 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 You wouldn't be getting a £1,000 penalty fare for skipping a £6 rail fare - You would be getting a penalty fare of £1,000 for being caught repeatedly not paying your £6 fare. For the umpteenth time too, payment of rail fares / penalty fares is not voluntary - fare aversion is a criminal offence The standard rail penalty fare in the UK, btw, is £20 or 2 x the value of your fare, whichever is greater. How can this be a serious question?It's an entirely serious question. I'm interested to know how you'd implement it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 To be honest, if I got fined £1000 for skipping a £6 rail fare there is absolutely no chance I would be paying that voluntarily, it’s not proportionate to the punishment. Oh, it’s not proportionate is it? Terribly sorry about that sir, lets reduce that fine for you and get it down to a figure that you’re willing to pay. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said: It's an entirely serious question. I'm interested to know how you'd implement it. More than once = repeat. That part isn't hard, and directly answers the question you asked. As for implementation? Body cameras / CCTV etc can be used to identify people who give false details (in itself an offence). Edited June 17, 2022 by Todd_is_God -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 1 minute ago, jamamafegan said: Oh, it’s not proportionate is it? Terribly sorry about that sir, lets reduce that fine for you and get it down to a figure that you’re willing to pay. Fine him £6. That will definitely ensure he doesn't try it again... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19QOS19 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 More than once = repeat. That part isn't hard, and directly answers the question you asked. As for implementation? Body cameras / CCTV etc can be used to identify people who give false details (in itself an offence).It's clearly not as simple as getting folks face on camera though or they would surely implement it? Even when they try and catch repeat offenders on those London Underground programmes it's a long drawn out process which takes time and money. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.