Scotrail

[Bairnardo]

5 minutes ago, virginton said:

Union leaders have certainly been acting from a position of weakness since the 1980s, and I understand them adopting that mindset. But it is massively undercutting any wider support for their cause and I cannot see them being able to sustain it in the long run. 

No doubt there a huge amount of Dinosaur mentality in UK trade unionism that doesn't help. I think they have an open goal for showing people that unionising their workplaces is the only way to protect against massive profiteering at the expense of the worker who has to bear the rising cost of living whilst Bankers and politicians line up to tell them to "be reasonable" with pay claims. But if they are going to do that, they have to drag themselves into the light somewhat. That whole thing is a seperate thread of its own though I reckon. And never really likely to happen because we live in gammon-land. 

1 minute ago, virginton said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/23/london-underground-station-staff-to-stage-24-hour-strike-on-6-june

They don't need to give a reason in quotes or in writing for an outside observer to recognise exactly what's going on though.

ASLEF officials have repeatedly linked the current disruption to 'Scotrail getting back to the negotiating table' - but those negotiations are about pay and not overtime work. Which rather gives the game away. 

In that article its clear that they have had a ballot for industrial action, so nothing wrong with RMT saying it in that instance. 

You can read between the lines and surmise why the drivers are withholding overtime of course. But several people on the thread have said they have an "overtime ban" or are "working to rule" neither of which are true and from a legal standpoint the distinction is important enough to correct them IMO. At best (or worst) its quite simply the drivers using the levers they have short of a ballot for IA, which are very very few and far between. 

For me, no one has a right to question someone why they aren't doing overtime. This is simply an inherent risk of the way Scotrail have chosen to run their business over the years. It gives a lever to the employees. They would be stupid not to use it, and even stupider to say anything to that end.

[flyingscot]

36 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

It doesn't seem to be suiting both parties any more though, it seems to be creating an overreliance on staff working uncontracted hours, which means that the "employer" (ie the government) is up shit creek when the drivers exercise their right not to work these extra shifts. The goal for the government should now be to find a solution which moves them away from this so that we don't have this ridiculous situation on an annual basis.

Well yes, in times where staff are unhappy it backfires on you as staff can refuse to volunteer. 

Having enough staff and moving to all days in contracts would help to a certain extent but who knows what other issues could arise if that's negotiated. 

[BigDoddyKane]

The Scotrail website deosnt seem to allow tickets to be bought in August , is that not possible yet? or am i missing something on the site. 

[Left Back]

6 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said:

The Scotrail website deosnt seem to allow tickets to be bought in August , is that not possible yet? or am i missing something on the site. 

They know something we don't.  All services will have been withdrawn by then.

[strichener]

5 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

 

 

Of course not. But it's clear what the headline is trying to achieve. Folk will see 80k and that's what they remember: "Don't they make about 80K a year anyway?!"



Driver's basic wage isn't 55k either m8. And of course other staff within the railway have benefitted.

 

In 2019, the salary for a driver was quotes as £51,500 in October 2020.  Instead of telling me what it isn't, how about you just post the figure and we can work out how many 10s of thousands of pounds over the cost of living drivers salaries have increased.

My figures for 1997 and 2001 are accurate so let's have the 2022 figure.

I also didn't say drivers were the only ones to benefit but they have been the ones to benefit most in salary terms.  It is also why ScotRail have historically tried to separate out negotiation with drivers from other positions.

Edited May 23, 2022 by strichener

[19QOS19]

In 2019, the salary for a driver was quotes as £51,500 in October 2020.  Instead of telling me what it isn't, how about you just post the figure and we can work out how many 10s of thousands of pounds over the cost of living drivers salaries have increased.
My figures for 1997 and 2001 are accurate so let's have the 2022 figure.
I also didn't say drivers were the only ones to benefit but they have been the ones to benefit most in salary terms.  It is also why ScotRail have historically tried to separate out negotiation with drivers from other positions.

I'm not the one foaming at the mouth though, I'm merely telling you you're wrong again. If you feel so strongly about an issue it's usually a good idea to have your information correct.

[Clown Job]

Ah well, looks like I’ll be using Citylink again from now on. 

 

[Moomintroll]

32 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

Ah well, looks like I’ll be using Citylink again from now on. 

 

Smart thinking.

[strichener]

53 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

57 minutes ago, strichener said:

In 2019, the salary for a driver was quotes as £51,500 in October 2020.  Instead of telling me what it isn't, how about you just post the figure and we can work out how many 10s of thousands of pounds over the cost of living drivers salaries have increased.
My figures for 1997 and 2001 are accurate so let's have the 2022 figure.
I also didn't say drivers were the only ones to benefit but they have been the ones to benefit most in salary terms.  It is also why ScotRail have historically tried to separate out negotiation with drivers from other positions.

I'm not the one foaming at the mouth though, I'm merely telling you you're wrong again. If you feel so strongly about an issue it's usually a good idea to have your information correct.

I'm not foaming at the mouth though, I look forward to you correcting me.  Otherwise I'll take your reticence as confirmation that my figures are sufficiently accurate that you aren't comfortable in correcting me.

Edited May 23, 2022 by strichener

[19QOS19]

I'm not foaming at the mouth though, I look forward to you correcting me.  Otherwise I'll take your reticence as confirmation that my figures are sufficiently accurate that you aren't comfortable in correcting me.

I'm telling you with 100% certainty that Scotrail drivers don't earn 55k basic salary. That's twice now you've jumped in with make-believe information. Before you do it a third time maybe make sure you're information is correct?

You've taken the time to put up all those figures so I'm sure you have the time to locate the correct figure without me spoonfeeding you.

[Bairnardo]

"I've beaten you at internet unless you post details of your salary"

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

2 hours ago, flyingscot said:

Well yes, in times where staff are unhappy it backfires on you as staff can refuse to volunteer. 

It is a ridiculous state of affairs to be running critical infrastructure via volunteers.

Contracts should be negotiated with a full 7 day working week and shifts covering trains running at the times they have been.

The rail union is unlikely to agree though because the current state of affairs gives them a very powerful position. They can continue working but essentially shut down large parts of the rail service due to industrail action. Scotrail seems like they are ready to counter this in these negotiations and will run only essential services for however long it takes rather than let the drivers' union dictate a chaotic timetable.

[welshbairn]

Part of the driver shortage is probably rail companies winding down to driverless trains and preferring to pay overtime to redundancy payments when they make the switch. I doubt it will happen anytime soon on the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line though.

[Left Back]

1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said:

 

 

 

I'm telling you with 100% certainty that Scotrail drivers don't earn 55k basic salary. That's twice now you've jumped in with make-believe information. Before you do it a third time maybe make sure you're information is correct?

You've taken the time to put up all those figures so I'm sure you have the time to locate the correct figure without me spoonfeeding you.

 

 

If you have information that’s relevant to the debate why don’t you share it?  What’s so bad about saying “You’re wrong, here’s the real figure based on this source”?  There are plenty sources out there indicating £55k is not an unreasonable number.  Feel free to share if you have better information.

[Left Back]

41 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

It is a ridiculous state of affairs to be running critical infrastructure via volunteers.

Contracts should be negotiated with a full 7 day working week and shifts covering trains running at the times they have been.

The rail union is unlikely to agree though because the current state of affairs gives them a very powerful position. They can continue working but essentially shut down large parts of the rail service due to industrail action. Scotrail seems like they are ready to counter this in these negotiations and will run only essential services for however long it takes rather than let the drivers' union dictate a chaotic timetable.

This isn’t industrial action remember.  This is not organised in the slightest.  All the train drivers all at one decided they’d rather spend time with their families instead of doing overtime.

[19QOS19]

Part of the driver shortage is probably rail companies winding down to driverless trains and preferring to pay overtime to redundancy payments when they make the switch. I doubt it will happen anytime soon on the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line though.

[emoji38]

If you have information that’s relevant to the debate why don’t you share it?  What’s so bad about saying “You’re wrong, here’s the real figure based on this source”?  There are plenty sources out there indicating £55k is not an unreasonable number.  Feel free to share if you have better information.

My source is myself. The basic isn't 55k.

[Cairn Terrier]

The information I see online quotes the basic salary at £48,360 after completion of probationary period.

[welshbairn]

I'd like to see @strichener 's tax returns and details of his contribution to society before commenting on this matter any further.

[strichener]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

I'd like to see @strichener 's tax returns and details of his contribution to society before commenting on this matter any further.

I'm not a public sector employee that has had years and years of above inflation pay rises that is now greeting because the gravy train has hit the buffers.

[strichener]

1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

"I've beaten you at internet unless you post details of your salary"

Said absolutely nobody in this thread.