Junior Football needs to evolve or it will die

[thelegendthatis]

Great spot. You've listed a rake of teams who were punished ( perhaps not severely enough) for financial mismanagement. You see now why I said that yeah? Chocolate watch your way Einstein.

No, I don't get what the 'that' you said means. Do you?

Interesting you use the term 'financial mismanagement'. Companies go bust for many reasons. Financial mismanagement is but one reason. Being totally corrupt and trading illegally can be included under that heading. And yes that is how most senior clubs have been run, with a few notable exceptions.

Hopefully there will be a wave of honesty and integrity running through senior clubs. But I really doubt it. Why change when you keep getting away with it, or at least as far as the SFA is concerned?

[daleboy1969]

Just read the article. First he bemones the fact that Junior clubs are going to the wall, then he finishes by saying there are too many! Poor stuff and I'm not sure of the point he is trying to make. Yes the game needs to evolve and join the Pyramid, but that won't stop clubs folding.

The only decent point he makes is about facilities.

i notice that since Blackburn received funding for the new facility you have become an advocat for all clubs who haven't been so fortunate to sort themselves out . However I hear the new building is unsustainable energy wise ( big mouth at WLC telling tales) many clubs are upgrading facilities at their own cost ,which takes time . Try not to be so judgemental .

[Ian McG]

i notice that since Blackburn received funding for the new facility you have become an advocat for all clubs who haven't been so fortunate to sort themselves out . However I hear the new building is unsustainable energy wise ( big mouth at WLC telling tales) many clubs are upgrading facilities at their own cost ,which takes time . Try not to be so judgemental .

In a number of your posts there would appear to be an unwritten implication that Blackburn United were simply given the facilities we now have at New Murrayfield Park. It is staggering just how wide of the mark this implication is.

The ball started rolling on developing new football facilities in Blackburn as far back as 2004 and it was nine years of hard work, patience and perseverance on many different fronts, from achieving SFA Quality Mark status at Community and now Legacy level and becoming an accredited Development level Sports club with WLC to convincing Sport Scotland and Awards for All (amongst many others) to invest in the Club's vision and, by extension, invest in addressing the sporting needs of the local community, before New Murrayfield Park became a reality.....and another two years of equally draining time and effort to realise the Club's long held ambition of putting down a 3G surface at the ground.

No matter what you believe, and no matter whether you think this is the right way to approach investment in football in Scotland or not, at the moment there is no other option and no short cut - unless you happen to win the next lotto roll over. If you would like to see your Club begin to move in this direction then please feel free to pm me, I am not hiding behind a user name and I would be only too willing to offer some basic guidance on how to begin the journey to becoming a recognised community based club that can look to attract the necessary investment to help improve facilities. However, as I've already said, it is a long and time consuming road that will require the sacrificing of an inordinate amount of your own personal time so if you prefer to continue to complain form the sidelines then that is you prerogative.

[hardest ned in glasgow]

One of the problems with junior football is the fact it has not moved with the times. The facilities we provide for spectators is fair to non- existent.

We are quite happy for our top teams to sign players for good money but they forget the people standing watching them.

Over the area the west area where I follow games the facilities provided are either basic or terrible. We don't even provide basic toilets at all grounds we are trying to make football attractive to all so surely the basic facilities should be provided.

As an example i will use Pollock juniors ground they have a very good ground BUT where are the toilets, behind the enclosure they have a small enclosed wall ( you are standing like a coo looking over a dyke) they have no running water it gets flushed when it rains no hand washing facilities we are supposed to be encouraging families if a father brings his son and daughter and the son needs the toilet he has to tell him he cannot wash his hands and tell his daughter to wait until they get home, we used to use the social club at times but this is no longer owned by the club anyway this was unsuitable.

May I say this is an example of a ground the west region uses for cup finals, they should be using grounds where facilities are fully provided.

Is it not time the SJFA and all regions laid down rules regarding what facilities should be provided OR should Local Council environmental departments become involved as surely we deserve in 2016 the basic toilet facilities. Maybe if we could get the above sorted we may attract more people and sponsors to the game and teams we all want to do well

why do u need to wash your hands? do u pish out the sides of your member?

[Kirky442]

I would like to comment that I agree that football at all levels needs a shake up, though in the ADL the lowest league out, a tiny club like ours Muirkirk survives with no debt and facilities that a lot of the more fashionable clubs would be delighted with. This is down to the fact that expectations are managed in accordance with budget and never is it allowed to change. Yes loads of people suggest that the ADL is as near to amateur as you will get the fact I disagree wholeheartedly makes no difference. The point is that clubs like ours are working with youth players, those players will hopefully move on to bigger clubs at some point and we can bring in fresh youth. The selling fee's that we should be able to generate will enhance the coffers and ensure the club stays in business.

Its all about managing expectations, I could be wrong and only our committee could comment but I would say our attendances have been increasing and no extra cost. The club is managed by a hard working committee of varying ages which is unusual I agree. If all our club manages to be remembered for was producing some cracking players that moved on to bigger things then in my opinion thats a legacy i could live with as we know we will always be in existence and hopefully myself and others will witness a few crackers on the pitch in kirk colours.

The trick is to not get carried away with SUGAR daddies who have the attention span of a gnat that disappear once it becomes boring taking with them their wingmen and leaving the club to pick up the pieces, inevitabley removing their funding too and the poor committee are left trying to gather the funds required as the club spiral down the leagues. Nobody can deny this happens as weve all seen it!!! Live within your means, promote youth and in 5-10 years there will be a huige difference IMO.

[Black Pennel]

I'm guessing you don't remember the fantastic facilities at your old ground, then ?

Your new place (which is great) wasn't funded entirely by the football club...Other clubs aren't in the same position to obtain funding at that level to allow an upgrade.

Edited for fat old fingers syndrome.

[energyzone]

I would like to comment that I agree that football at all levels needs a shake up, though in the ADL the lowest league out, a tiny club like ours Muirkirk survives with no debt and facilities that a lot of the more fashionable clubs would be delighted with. This is down to the fact that expectations are managed in accordance with budget and never is it allowed to change. Yes loads of people suggest that the ADL is as near to amateur as you will get the fact I disagree wholeheartedly makes no difference. The point is that clubs like ours are working with youth players, those players will hopefully move on to bigger clubs at some point and we can bring in fresh youth. The selling fee's that we should be able to generate will enhance the coffers and ensure the club stays in business.

Its all about managing expectations, I could be wrong and only our committee could comment but I would say our attendances have been increasing and no extra cost. The club is managed by a hard working committee of varying ages which is unusual I agree. If all our club manages to be remembered for was producing some cracking players that moved on to bigger things then in my opinion thats a legacy i could live with as we know we will always be in existence and hopefully myself and others will witness a few crackers on the pitch in kirk colours.

The trick is to not get carried away with SUGAR daddies who have the attention span of a gnat that disappear once it becomes boring taking with them their wingmen and leaving the club to pick up the pieces, inevitabley removing their funding too and the poor committee are left trying to gather the funds required as the club spiral down the leagues. Nobody can deny this happens as weve all seen it!!! Live within your means, promote youth and in 5-10 years there will be a huige difference IMO.

You still won't have won anything though. I get your point about not being funded by a benefactor but there aren't many clubs that wouldn't say no to a few years of success and a couple of shiny trophies along the way.

[Ian McG]

I'm guessing you don't remember the fantastic facilities at your old ground, then ?

Your new place (which is great) wasn't funded entirely by the football club...Other clubs aren't in the same position to obtain funding at that level to allow an upgrade.

Edited for fat old fingers syndrome.

I'm not sure if you're referring to my own earlier post, so apologies up front if you're not!

I remember well our old ground and it was the very fact that it was totally unfit for purpose that drove the Club to do something about it. In 2004 we weren't in any position to obtain funding to upgrade the ground, just exactly like "other clubs" you refer to. However, unlike too many of those other clubs we resolved to look at exactly what we could do about it and, after understanding what that was, we set about doing it. Eleven long years later we have achieved exactly what we set out to and have consigned our old ground and it's lack of creature comforts to memory - fond though some of those memories are!

Nothing is simple, there are no quick fixes, only hard, unseen and sometimes thankless work and a commitment to see it all through to the end. Set backs are inevitable and luck is essential - we have been fortunate at times to have positioned ourselves in the right place at the right time, but really you have to make your own luck too by keeping the end goal in mind and being determined to get there. Funds won't always be there as they weren't always there for us, and they are no doubt diminishing so you have to make your club stand out from the rest by aligning yourself against the benchmarks set out by those who might provide those funds. It's a long journey but if you're not willing to start then there's little chance of getting to the end of it.

Anyway, that's the last of my clichés - honest!

[Wile E Coyote]

I would like to comment that I agree that football at all levels needs a shake up, though in the ADL the lowest league out, a tiny club like ours Muirkirk survives with no debt and facilities that a lot of the more fashionable clubs would be delighted with. This is down to the fact that expectations are managed in accordance with budget and never is it allowed to change. Yes loads of people suggest that the ADL is as near to amateur as you will get the fact I disagree wholeheartedly makes no difference. The point is that clubs like ours are working with youth players, those players will hopefully move on to bigger clubs at some point and we can bring in fresh youth. The selling fee's that we should be able to generate will enhance the coffers and ensure the club stays in business.

Its all about managing expectations, I could be wrong and only our committee could comment but I would say our attendances have been increasing and no extra cost. The club is managed by a hard working committee of varying ages which is unusual I agree. If all our club manages to be remembered for was producing some cracking players that moved on to bigger things then in my opinion thats a legacy i could live with as we know we will always be in existence and hopefully myself and others will witness a few crackers on the pitch in kirk colours.

The trick is to not get carried away with SUGAR daddies who have the attention span of a gnat that disappear once it becomes boring taking with them their wingmen and leaving the club to pick up the pieces, inevitabley removing their funding too and the poor committee are left trying to gather the funds required as the club spiral down the leagues. Nobody can deny this happens as weve all seen it!!! Live within your means, promote youth and in 5-10 years there will be a huige difference IMO.

I admire the sentiments and agree with you to an extent but when was the last time Muirkirk sold a player for a fee.

Teams like Muirkirk generally sign players for a season and at the end of the season a lot leave and they need to sign more players for the next season and then repeat cycle

[Talbot Bing]

I would like to comment that I agree that football at all levels needs a shake up, though in the ADL the lowest league out, a tiny club like ours Muirkirk survives with no debt and facilities that a lot of the more fashionable clubs would be delighted with. This is down to the fact that expectations are managed in accordance with budget and never is it allowed to change. Yes loads of people suggest that the ADL is as near to amateur as you will get the fact I disagree wholeheartedly makes no difference. The point is that clubs like ours are working with youth players, those players will hopefully move on to bigger clubs at some point and we can bring in fresh youth. The selling fee's that we should be able to generate will enhance the coffers and ensure the club stays in business.

Its all about managing expectations, I could be wrong and only our committee could comment but I would say our attendances have been increasing and no extra cost. The club is managed by a hard working committee of varying ages which is unusual I agree. If all our club manages to be remembered for was producing some cracking players that moved on to bigger things then in my opinion thats a legacy i could live with as we know we will always be in existence and hopefully myself and others will witness a few crackers on the pitch in kirk colours.

The trick is to not get carried away with SUGAR daddies who have the attention span of a gnat that disappear once it becomes boring taking with them their wingmen and leaving the club to pick up the pieces, inevitabley removing their funding too and the poor committee are left trying to gather the funds required as the club spiral down the leagues. Nobody can deny this happens as weve all seen it!!! Live within your means, promote youth and in 5-10 years there will be a huige difference IMO.

Very well written and true words.

[Man on a bike]

In a number of your posts there would appear to be an unwritten implication that Blackburn United were simply given the facilities we now have at New Murrayfield Park. It is staggering just how wide of the mark this implication is.

The ball started rolling on developing new football facilities in Blackburn as far back as 2004 and it was nine years of hard work, patience and perseverance on many different fronts, from achieving SFA Quality Mark status at Community and now Legacy level and becoming an accredited Development level Sports club with WLC to convincing Sport Scotland and Awards for All (amongst many others) to invest in the Club's vision and, by extension, invest in addressing the sporting needs of the local community, before New Murrayfield Park became a reality.....and another two years of equally draining time and effort to realise the Club's long held ambition of putting down a 3G surface at the ground.

No matter what you believe, and no matter whether you think this is the right way to approach investment in football in Scotland or not, at the moment there is no other option and no short cut - unless you happen to win the next lotto roll over. If you would like to see your Club begin to move in this direction then please feel free to pm me, I am not hiding behind a user name and I would be only too willing to offer some basic guidance on how to begin the journey to becoming a recognised community based club that can look to attract the necessary investment to help improve facilities. However, as I've already said, it is a long and time consuming road that will require the sacrificing of an inordinate amount of your own personal time so if you prefer to continue to complain form the sidelines then that is you prerogative.

Well done to Blackburn for the years of hard work that has resulted in their new facilities. Many clubs want all this presented on a plate without doing any work themselves. As Blackburn I hope can confirm, it just doesn't work like that.

No project of this type and size will be plain sailing. There are always times when people want to throw their toys out of the pram. Be prepared for it.

I will mention things in general here. If anyone wants to give actual examples, it would be helpful.

Political support is essential. Councillors, MSPs in particular. They can help you progress or they can block it.

Property developer who comes along to build houses on your ground, giving you lots of money is to be ignored unless the Council 5 year plan has that area earmarked for housing. Otherwise a waste of everyones' time.

If someone, no matter how credible ends a sentence with "..and you will end up with a quarter of million in your bank account", chase them.

Get the constitution of your club sorted so that even if you get £1 of public money it can't be flushed into the pockets of any individuals.

And finally be honest. Especially if getting involved as a community group. The short term benefits that screws others is nothing compared with the permanence of being treated as a lying bas***d by official bodies, funders and your own community.

[Black Pennel]

Ian McG...It's not all about Blackburn United you know !

I was talking to the Muirkirk contingent. They've got a smashing wee fitba park with real grass.

My only point was that they were able to acquire the funding for their move down off the mountain from sources which wouldn't be available to other teams.

[Kirky442]

I admire the sentiments and agree with you to an extent but when was the last time Muirkirk sold a player for a fee.

Teams like Muirkirk generally sign players for a season and at the end of the season a lot leave and they need to sign more players for the next season and then repeat cycle

Hi, im talking about the way the club has been maintained financially and the current crop of youngsters at the club, were looking forward with youth as are Lugar although those players are Ayr Utd, nobody outside the club expects us to achieve anything but as far as I can see we can offer game time and development for young players wanting to make their way in the junior game. Perhaps a few seasoned pro's in their twilight years of football would relish joining the club and helping to bring these young guns in? I appreciate not all of them will move on to bigger things that's a given but at the very least they will give the club stability.

Your teams in the higher leagues don't need to worry about this kind of thing but a lot of teams in the lower leagues should try it, maybe take a few seasons but in my opinion if they did what a competitive league the ADL would be in 5 years time, just a thought.

[Ian McG]

Ian McG...It's not all about Blackburn United you know !

I was talking to the Muirkirk contingent. They've got a smashing wee fitba park with real grass.

My only point was that they were able to acquire the funding for their move down off the mountain from sources which wouldn't be available to other teams.

And nor should it be, which is precisely why I prefaced my reply with an apology if I misunderstood who you were referring to in your original post as it wasn't particularly clear.

[Hampden Diehard]

why do u need to wash your hands? do u pish out the sides of your member?

Unless you sit down to pish, you'll probably hold yer willie. And who knows where that's been!

[Kirky442]

You still won't have won anything though. I get your point about not being funded by a benefactor but there aren't many clubs that wouldn't say no to a few years of success and a couple of shiny trophies along the way.

Your correct we may not have won anything but we will be stable. There's only 1 winner per league with how many teams participating in those leagues? the percentages against the majority of teams winning is high. Many have thrown money at success and failed miserably of course success is measured differently at every club. How many different title winners has there been in the Premier in the last 10 years?.

In my opinion stability brings success at some point, you develop a camaraderie with the whole club, committee, players, coaches and supporters and eventually the crowds increase. If your business model is correct then extra income from gate increases, hospitality etc goes straight to the bottom line and ensures a financially sound platform to grow from. Paying someone £25 per week as compared to £10 per week how big a gap in ability do you think there is? do you think its significant? I personally don't. Ive seen u19 & u20 youth teams beating ADL teams (I must stress in one off games) and competing with higher league teams maybe getting beat by a couple of goals but if the gulf is that big why not a tanking. Surely the lower leagues would do well to take these young kids on and develop them over a couple of years.

Again all my own opinion.

[Mr Prez]

In a number of your posts there would appear to be an unwritten implication that Blackburn United were simply given the facilities we now have at New Murrayfield Park. It is staggering just how wide of the mark this implication is.

The ball started rolling on developing new football facilities in Blackburn as far back as 2004 and it was nine years of hard work, patience and perseverance on many different fronts, from achieving SFA Quality Mark status at Community and now Legacy level and becoming an accredited Development level Sports club with WLC to convincing Sport Scotland and Awards for All (amongst many others) to invest in the Club's vision and, by extension, invest in addressing the sporting needs of the local community, before New Murrayfield Park became a reality.....and another two years of equally draining time and effort to realise the Club's long held ambition of putting down a 3G surface at the ground.

No matter what you believe, and no matter whether you think this is the right way to approach investment in football in Scotland or not, at the moment there is no other option and no short cut - unless you happen to win the next lotto roll over. If you would like to see your Club begin to move in this direction then please feel free to pm me, I am not hiding behind a user name and I would be only too willing to offer some basic guidance on how to begin the journey to becoming a recognised community based club that can look to attract the necessary investment to help improve facilities. However, as I've already said, it is a long and time consuming road that will require the sacrificing of an inordinate amount of your own personal time so if you prefer to continue to complain form the sidelines then that is you prerogative.

Well said

[calmac25]

What would happen if one of the regions decided to join the pyramid. Would that be an all sjfa vote or left to a region to decide?

[Hillonearth]

What would happen if one of the regions decided to join the pyramid. Would that be an all sjfa vote or left to a region to decide?

Each region's membership consists of all the clubs who play in it, and it would be extremely unlikely that there would be agreement across the board to move en masse from any region to join the pyramid as currently constituted.

Possibly the North Region is the best set up of the three at the moment to just slot in under the Highland League - the geography of the two are contiguous and by and large it's of a lower standard than the HFL, but a mass move would undoubtedly doom quite a few of the smaller village clubs who haven't a hope in hell of ever becoming licensed to extinction, which was apparently what the original article was suggesting would be a good thing.

It's a much more complicated situation with the East and West Regions, and there is zero chance of either's membership coming round to a mass move - a handful of smaller sides have expressed individual interest, but by and large there's a mix of indifference and cynicism towards the current setup, coupled with the fact that there is no way the larger well-run and well-supported sides would countenance forming a LL 2 under what exists at the moment.

[parsforlife]

Each region's membership consists of all the clubs who play in it, and it would be extremely unlikely that there would be agreement across the board to move en masse from any region to join the pyramid as currently constituted.

Possibly the North Region is the best set up of the three at the moment to just slot in under the Highland League - the geography of the two are contiguous and by and large it's of a lower standard than the HFL, but a mass move would undoubtedly doom quite a few of the smaller village clubs who haven't a hope in hell of ever becoming licensed to extinction, which was apparently what the original article was suggesting would be a good thing.

How on earth are clubs doomed if they were to move to the pyramid? Playing the same teams as they are currently?