Junior Football needs to evolve or it will die

[socexp]

Think it should have been titled..

Junior football needs to evolve or some smaller clubs will die ..

Im sure the junior association can survive but i think over the next 5 years some smaller clubs will die off ..unless junior football has some sort of revamp .smaller clubs will struggle to continue to pay their bills ..i know in ayshire league clubs hanging on in their by commitee members who have done this out of duty for years .

However the day will come they will be unable to do this any longer ...

Live tv football is a killer for junior game ..

Junior association have got to have some thoughts on best way to be flexible on when best time of season to have most fixtures ...

A number of years ago i managed an ayrshire team and we playing away against east end glasgow team ..on the same day as a live old firm game

And question was asked could we put game back 30 mins ..

So that supporters could watch both games ...

We were told

NO . WOULD THEY CHANGE

KICK OFF TIMES FOR US ...

no prizes for guessing who said this ...

What chance do you have when

This is the outlook you have at the top of the tree....

The home club only trying to boost their gate to help with revenue ...

No agenda no hidden agenda

Just a request to get a bigger gate ...

Makes sense

[energyzone]

The reason most clubs have committee members exclusively over the age of 50 is because people have more time to devote at an older age. It's not a lack of interest at a younger age - it's a lack of time and competing interests and commitments. The cycle will go on.

[Talbot Bing]

The Lowland League has done more in 3 years (and the HFL over a longer period) to implement some semi reasonable standards than junior football has done in 60 years.

That may be true. ..but without any fanbase

[parsforlife]

Constant 'you got no fans' of the LL isn't helpful

[Hillonearth]

Constant 'you got no fans' of the LL isn't helpful

I’m sure nobody wants to get into one of those interminable Junior v LL circular borefests which have polluted both forums for the last few years, but I think it’s more that we’re apparently being told that the way to bring punters back through the gate and at a stroke cure all our ills – the existence of which are undeniable for many clubs – is to follow the example of a set-up which is currently equally undeniably even worse supported.

[HTG]

Im sure nobody wants to get into one of those interminable Junior v LL circular borefests which have polluted both forums for the last few years, but I think its more that were apparently being told that the way to bring punters back through the gate and at a stroke cure all our ills the existence of which are undeniable for many clubs is to follow the example of a set-up which is currently equally undeniably even worse supported.

They're more poorly supported in many cases because either they don't have a "traditional" fan base and/or they may be secondary to rugby (in the case of some border clubs). It almost makes it more regrettable that clubs with the potential to do better for their customers have chosen not to. Nobody is saying all ills can be cured but a failure to address even the most rudimentary requested - which is pretty much what the entry level criteria are - is only going to hasten the demise.

Junior football used to be a pipeline for young guys making their way in the game. Now it is being surpassed by "new" teams and is left to stand for nothing much beyond that which the amateurs can offer. That's a bit unfair on some of the top end clubs who can attract decent players (and occasional shysters stealing a wage).

If folk think there's nothing wrong that's fine. If they've no idea how to address some issues that's up to them. For those charged with running the game they should be having a long hard look at how it is that clubs can waltz past them in the pecking order who couldn't have laced junior boots on the pitch 10 years ago but who have, in successive seasons, dismissed the benchmark team of junior football from the Scottish cup.

[yellowcard]

Couple of good points there.

I know some of the smaller clubs will be against this especially within a couple of the Ayrshire groups for financial reasons.

It's worked in the East ok and an opportunity to get some league games played.

we need to make league games more interesting , second half of the season is full of games that involve teams that won't go down but can't win leagues , junior officials need to start thinking outside the box or the lowland league will be more apealing to players

[Talbot Bing]

Constant 'you got no fans' of the LL isn't helpful

Can't hide the truth mate. They haven't got a fanbase try as the might they never will until the juniors is linked with them in some format.

[HTG]

Can't hide the truth mate. They haven't got a fanbase try as the might they never will until the juniors is linked with them in some format.

Remove about 15 or so clubs in Junior football and have a look at the landscape for the other 140. This fanbase thing has no depth to it.

[TFW]

This guy clearly has been blinkered. I have been to many Talbot games in recent years where the crowd numbers less than 200.People only come out for the bigger games against the bigger clubs. To think Talbot moving in to a higher league system is feasible is bonkers.People won't even travel up to Glasgow when they are playing Pollok Petershill etc.Never mind having a situation where they have to travel to the other end of the country.

Not for League or Junior Cup ties. Midweek Ardagh Cup games maybe, but you've certainly not been to "many Talbot games in recent years where the crowd numbers less than 200"

[Talbot Bing]

Remove about 15 or so clubs in Junior football and have a look at the landscape for the other 140. This fanbase thing has no depth to it.

That's possibly true buddy but as an ayrshire gent the juniors are steeped in the blood here. Not sure it's the same in the LL areas.

[Hillonearth]

They're more poorly supported in many cases because either they don't have a "traditional" fan base and/or they may be secondary to rugby (in the case of some border clubs). It almost makes it more regrettable that clubs with the potential to do better for their customers have chosen not to. Nobody is saying all ills can be cured but a failure to address even the most rudimentary requested - which is pretty much what the entry level criteria are - is only going to hasten the demise.

Junior football used to be a pipeline for young guys making their way in the game. Now it is being surpassed by "new" teams and is left to stand for nothing much beyond that which the amateurs can offer. That's a bit unfair on some of the top end clubs who can attract decent players (and occasional shysters stealing a wage).

If folk think there's nothing wrong that's fine. If they've no idea how to address some issues that's up to them. For those charged with running the game they should be having a long hard look at how it is that clubs can waltz past them in the pecking order who couldn't have laced junior boots on the pitch 10 years ago but who have, in successive seasons, dismissed the benchmark team of junior football from the Scottish cup.

The Borders have always been an anomaly, and most regions that size would have the catchment area to support a team at SFL level were it not for the local pre-eminece of rugby and intense tribalism between the towns down that way, which was pretty much what did for professional rugby in the area. The LL former boys' clubs seem to have banked on their youth memberships forming ready made fanbases, which by and large hasn't happened as while parents are happy to ferry their kids to their games at 10am, they're proving resistant to then making a day of it and taking them to their club's LL game in the afternoon - unless EK get that game against Celtic, in which case I'm sure they'll all be present!

Some of the venues the LL teams play out of aren't conducive to gameday atmosphere either and seem to fall into several categories - the municipal concrete monstrosity (City/Gala), the neat but sterile sports-centre setup (Spartans/EK) and the out-of-town SFL venue too big for the side it was originally designed for (Stirling/Colts). All personal preference of course, but the LL venues I've enjoyed visiting the most are the ones with a more traditional non-league vibe such as Dalbeattie and Whitehill.

[Talbot Bing]

The Borders have always been an anomaly, and most regions that size would have the catchment area to support a team at SFL level were it not for the local pre-eminece of rugby and intense tribalism between the towns down that way, which was pretty much what did for professional rugby in the area. The LL former boys' clubs seem to have banked on their youth memberships forming ready made fanbases, which by and large hasn't happened as while parents are happy to ferry their kids to their games at 10am, they're proving resistant to then making a day of it and taking them to their club's LL game in the afternoon - unless EK get that game against Celtic, in which case I'm sure they'll all be present!

Some of the venues the LL teams play out of aren't conducive to gameday atmosphere either and seem to fall into several categories - the municipal concrete monstrosity (City/Gala), the neat but sterile sports-centre setup (Spartans/EK) and the out-of-town SFL venue too big for the side it was originally designed for (Stirling/Colts). All personal preference of course, but the LL venues I've enjoyed visiting the most are the ones with a more traditional non-league vibe such as Dalbeattie and Whitehill.

Merger?

[Captains Park]

Nothing wrong with any club trying to better themselves whether facility wise or at striving to play at a higher level.
Not sure if the junior game is in any worse state of health than the senior game.
There's been 150 odd junior teams for as long as I can remember, if the game was so fecked they'd be dropping like flies.
As it stands I can see nothing that currently exists in the senior set up that makes me say I'll have some of that.
Lowland league? seriously, lowland league? Nice facilities and plastic pitches all round.
At least we'll have some nice lemon scented hand wash when we go for a pish at ht.
Then what, possibly League 2? Wow canny wait. That'll bring the crowds in for a season or two. Just like our games in the big Scottish,
as soon as we're out / novelty wears off they'll disappear quicker than snaw of a dyke and you're left with the
same week in week out diehards paying twice the money for at best marginally better football.
As Jack G says next logical progression for the junior game is East/West superleague.
All well and good wanting to be a Billy big time but be careful where you might end up.

[Hillonearth]

Merger?

If you mean the Borders sides doing an ICT, they'd never wear it. All those towns have fierce local rivalries, probably initially stemming from rugby, and just wouldn't show up if the club was based in a town other than their own. There also seems to be a real thing down that way about having predominantly local players representing them.

The Border Reivers pro rugby side were based in Galashiels, the biggest town in the area, but from what I remember hearing were largely dingied by the fans from Hawick, Selkirk, Kelso and so on due to where they played, which more or less doomed them from the start.

[Sheep77]

Nothing wrong with any club trying to better themselves whether facility wise or at striving to play at a higher level.

Not sure if the junior game is in any worse state of health than the senior game.

There's been 150 odd junior teams for as long as I can remember, if the game was so fecked they'd be dropping like flies.

As it stands I can see nothing that currently exists in the senior set up that makes me say I'll have some of that.

Lowland league? seriously, lowland league? Nice facilities and plastic pitches all round.

At least we'll have some nice lemon scented hand wash when we go for a pish at ht.

Then what, possibly League 2? Wow canny wait. That'll bring the crowds in for a season or two. Just like our games in the big Scottish,

as soon as we're out / novelty wears off they'll disappear quicker than snaw of a dyke and you're left with the

same week in week out diehards paying twice the money for at best marginally better football.

As Jack G says next logical progression for the junior game is East/West superleague.

All well and good wanting to be a Billy big time but be careful where you might end up.

Agreed

[Talbot Bing]

If you mean the Borders sides doing an ICT, they'd never wear it. All those towns have fierce local rivalries, probably initially stemming from rugby, and just wouldn't show up if the club was based in a town other than their own. There also seems to be a real thing down that way about having predominantly local players representing them.

The Border Reivers pro rugby side were based in Galashiels, the biggest town in the area, but from what I remember hearing were largely dingied by the fans from Hawick, Selkirk, Kelso and so on due to where they played, which more or less doomed them from the start.

Same as the juniors mate

[Hillonearth]

Same as the juniors mate

Pretty much - it would be the equivalent of Talbot and Cumnock or Linlithgow and Bo'ness merging. More folk would never go back than would be attracted to the new team!

[Sunrise]

Nothing wrong with any club trying to better themselves whether facility wise or at striving to play at a higher level.

Not sure if the junior game is in any worse state of health than the senior game.

There's been 150 odd junior teams for as long as I can remember, if the game was so fecked they'd be dropping like flies.

As it stands I can see nothing that currently exists in the senior set up that makes me say I'll have some of that.

Six junior sides have went into abeyance this season.

[Talbot Bing]

Junior teams fold a lot nothing new. We have folded in the past aswell but came back. In the 70's if it wasn't the help of Cumnock it would have happened again. Mutual hatred and respect for each other lol.