Junior Football needs to evolve or it will die

[Hillonearth 5,410]

I don't think there is in the Lowland League. The junior cup just doesn't have same magic for the non-league seniors as it does to the juniors. I feel that it would be seen as just another cup competition with long journeys and scant rewards. We are guaranteed entry to the "big" Scottish which can be fairly lucrative not to mention getting some of the money back spent on travelling. What does the Junior cup offer if you are not interested in the sentimental value.

I'd say it would be a bigger deal than the Southern Challenge Cup for starters.

It would certainly be a chance for both sides of the great divide to test themselves against each other - entry to the "big" Scottish is an irrelevance really, as for almost all non-league sides it's two or three games max a season with zero chance of actually winning the thing.

[parsforlife 2,339]

Some of the people involved in running the Highland League are more anti-Junior than some of our less informed SPFL-supporting posters on here. I mentioned this as a possibility to a 'beak' in the WRSJFA maybe 8/9 years ago and got laughed at for even suggesting Highland would be interested.

It can only be proposed.

It's possible some form of reform would be needed to encourage them to enter(early regionalisation and/or not entering until later on) but I don't think that shouldn't be considered.

[Cicero 443]

I am just not convinced that the majority of the Lowland league teams would go for it for financial reasons. If it was was just for footballing reasons yes, but in today's climate finances are a worry for a lot of clubs without the added worry of the possibility of a few more long distance away games with little reward.

Personally I would love to see it happen as it would be another step closer to the integration of all non-league football. I just can't see it happening any time soon.

[Aberdeen-Warrior 13]

Just on the topic of people saying have a cup with LL/HL clubs. it could be formatted in the same way as the English FA vase I believe it is called. I don't know if some one has suggested this particular idea already with regards to the FA vase format

[The Mantis 2,912]

I don't think there is in the Lowland League. The junior cup just doesn't have same magic for the non-league seniors as it does to the juniors. I feel that it would be seen as just another cup competition with long journeys and scant rewards.

We are guaranteed entry to the "big" Scottish which can be fairly lucrative not to mention getting some of the money back spent on travelling. What does the Junior cup offer if you are not interested in the sentimental value.

I don't find the South Challenge Cup very inspiring and would happily swap it for the Junior Cup. An all-in draw with 160-200 teams most of which you've never met before.

[Talbot Bing 405]

I think their is an appetite just by looking at some of the replies here. Jeez wonder what would happen if fans were allowed to run this set up instead of this current lot lol. :-D

[Hillonearth 5,410]

I am just not convinced that the majority of the Lowland league teams would go for it for financial reasons. If it was was just for footballing reasons yes, but in today's climate finances are a worry for a lot of clubs without the added worry of the possibility of a few more long distance away games with little reward.

Personally I would love to see it happen as it would be another step closer to the integration of all non-league football. I just can't see it happening any time soon.

Thing is, the LL clubs are already travelling long distances for little reward as it is - my team's game was off on Saturday, so I decided to visit a ground I hadn't been before, in this case Selkirk, facing Preston Athletic who were making an 80-90 mile round trip to play in front of maybe 30 paying punters at a push.

That's nowhere near the longest road trip in the LL either, and that's just for a bog standard league game. A half share of the gate at Pollok or Talbot would make more financial sense than what you're doing week in, week out...

[Cicero 443]

Thing is, the LL clubs are already travelling long distances for little reward as it is - my team's game was off on Saturday, so I decided to visit a ground I hadn't been before, in this case Selkirk, facing Preston Athletic who were making an 80-90 mile round trip to play in front of maybe 30 paying punters at a push.

Exactly my point and why add another even longer journey to the calandar. Don't forget an 80-90 mile round trip for my team is a local derby.

That's nowhere near the longest road trip in the LL either, and that's just for a bog standard league game. A half share of the gate at Pollok or Talbot would make more financial sense than what you're doing week in, week out...

And for every one of those there are a dozen or more clubs who regularly play in front of the 30 paying punters.

I think their is an appetite just by looking at some of the replies here. Jeez wonder what would happen if fans were allowed to run this set up instead of this current lot lol. :-D

Don't forget we don't have any fans in our league to worry about

[Burnie_man 6,808]

An all in non league cup is yet another development that our game needs to move towards. It can be tailored so that clubs who compete in the big Scottish are given byes in the first couple of rounds or whatever. It also gives the likes of Gretna, Whitehill, Spartans, Buckie, Nairn etc the chance to win a truly national trophy. That's not to be sniffed at.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Burnie_man

[HibeeJibee 8,662]

It simply couldn’t happen currently.

Junior Cup takes 8-9 ties to win plus replays, much held over mid-winter with postponed games tried every successive Saturday for weeks or months on end. Floodlight ban effectively rules-out midweek attempts. It couldn’t fit-in with league commitments, Scottish Cup, pyramid playoffs, etc.

If it was streamlined and played at more sensible times, you could probably manage in the south by replacing the South Challenge Cup (5-6 ties straight knockout inter-league cup for LL/EOSL/SOSL). Playing against Junior clubs might appeal to central belt clubs, too.

However up north they’d have to expel clubs to reduce the HL program to free-up dates - they don’t play any inter-league or local cups on weekends. It would also have less appeal - away ties would be lengthy, there are no major Junior clubs up there, and few from the south carry big supports. This season even a couple of North Juniors didn’t bother entering.

Edited January 25, 2016 by HibeeJibee

[Hillonearth 5,410]

Exactly my point and why add another even longer journey to the calandar. Don't forget an 80-90 mile round trip for my team is a local derby.

And for every one of those there are a dozen or more clubs who regularly play in front of the 30 paying punters.

Don't forget we don't have any fans in our league to worry about

You'd be surprised - granted, there ARE some Junior sides with little in the way of support who keep going almost in spite of themselves, but support is reasonably healthy quite far down the grade; I can think of five or six clubs in our division - the third tier of the West - and even a few in the division below who average 100+ through the gate.

[lang 516]

You'd be surprised - granted, there ARE some Junior sides with little in the way of support who keep going almost in spite of themselves, but support is reasonably healthy quite far down the grade; I can think of five or six clubs in our division - the third tier of the West - and even a few in the division below who average 100+ through the gate.

so why would want 2 bring in teams who have no support and could involve us in extra travel time and costs

[Hillonearth 5,410]

so why would want 2 bring in teams who have no support and could involve us in extra travel time and costs

Why not? The amount of teams involved wouldn't even need to add an extra round in the competition, and more importantly since we're always being slated as being the dinosaurs of the equation it would show we're open to new ideas...

[LongTimeLurker 1,752]

You'd be surprised - granted, there ARE some Junior sides with little in the way of support who keep going almost in spite of themselves, but support is reasonably healthy quite far down the grade; I can think of five or six clubs in our division - the third tier of the West - and even a few in the division below who average 100+ through the gate.

Which puts them ahead of almost the entire LL in interest terms. The Glasgow area has been underrepresented in per capita terms at the SFL/SPFL level, so there is more of a niche for reasonably well-supported nonleague teams.

Just on the topic of people saying have a cup with LL/HL clubs. it could be formatted in the same way as the English FA vase I believe it is called. I don't know if some one has suggested this particular idea already with regards to the FA vase format

The LL and HL are not going to find it easy to finish off their fixture lists this season in time for the playoffs, so as things stand they clearly have no space in their fixture list for a prolonged national cup competition. If failing to get the fixtures in easily becomes an ongoing issue and smaller tier five leagues with fewer fixtures become the norm (probably unlikely to go down well with relegated SPFL clubs) then there might be scope for the junior cup morphing into an FA Vase type setup, but right now there is zero chance of it happening.

[gaz5 1,700]

The LL and HL are not going to find it easy to finish off their fixture lists this season in time for the playoffs, so as things stand they clearly have no space in their fixture list for a prolonged national cup competition.

Not sure I agree with that for the LL. The month of March is down with a minimum of 3 provisional weekend fixture dates (no actual fixtures listed, dates left clear for previous cancellations) with the iron to use midweek as well. And all but a few grounds have working floodlights that can (and will) host said evening games.

Obviously we've no crystal ball so can't see how it will end up, but at least their use of decent forward planning (fixture list with provisional dates for calloffs factored in) and willingness to utilise resources available (floodlights for midweek games) certainly gives them every chance of getting the card completed before the playoffs.

[lang 516]

Why not? The amount of teams involved wouldn't even need to add an extra round in the competition, and more importantly since we're always being slated as being the dinosaurs of the equation it would show we're open to new ideas...

all we would b doing is giving teams such as E.K or BSC the chance of making money from a big gate from Talbot or Pollok instead of letting some smaller junior club benefit from a glory tie

[Ross. 4,088]

all we would b doing is giving teams such as E.K or BSC the chance of making money from a big gate from Talbot or Pollok instead of letting some smaller junior club benefit from a glory tie

That's the sort of self interest that holds football in Scotland back. It shouldn't matter whether you are under the SJFA, SPFL or SAFA, at the end of the day it's football.

I'd say a cup competition as suggested above would be a great idea. I'd even say that the winner should be given entry to the senior Scottish cup at the 4th round, to increase the odds of them getting a big tie and a good pay day.

[Burnie_man 6,808]

Maybe more Junior clubs should follow Linlithgow's example and apply for a Licence to gain entry to the Scottish Cup........

[Meadowman86 6]

Great result and a wee shot in the arm for the juniors tonight. More power to Linlithgow. They've spent the money on their ground they deserve an opportunity to showcase their team. I for one would love it if Meadow could follow suit.

[clash city rocker 836]

Great result and a wee shot in the arm for the juniors tonight. More power to Linlithgow. They've spent the money on their ground they deserve an opportunity to showcase their team. I for one would love it if Meadow could follow suit.

Medda could have been a senior club...your chairman said no, better to be a big club in the juniors.