Team 16?

[Whitburn Vale]

I think there may still be a Junior club in the Scottish Cup........

Another unanswered question, how do you get promoted into the Highland League? Golspie Sutherland have been licenced and presumably signed the pledge to engage with the Pyramid, so how exactly do they do they do that? How do Banks O'Dee get into the HL now that they are licenced?

It'll only be a matter of time before the north juniors/NCL get absorbed into the system,the question of promotion to the SPFL is already causing trouble,talk of two SHFL divisions etc. Banks o Dee would most certainly be invited into to that.A long way to go up North but it can be done if the will is there.

[Burnie_man]

As things stand, non-HFL licenced clubs north or the Tay have no route into the Pyramid. The HFL don’t appear to be accepting new clubs at the bottom end, so how can we have a Pyramid? At least the LL will eventually have some form of promotion/relegation to the EoSFL/SoSFL, but that appears a long way off in the north.

I can’t see the HFL encouraging the North Juniors to leave the SJFA en-masse and hook up with an expanded HFL system, same with the NCL, so there seems to be a sort of impasse north of the Tay which suits the HFL.

I wonder what would happen if Golspie and Banks O’Dee – both licenced – asked to join the HFL next season and were refused, what would the SFA do?

[stm]

I wonder what would happen if Golspie and Banks O’Dee – both licenced – asked to join the HFL next season and were refused, what would the SFA do?

Gather together a bunch of wallopers and some flipchart paper. Proudly declare a great decision has been made without any consultation with said clubs involved only for the decision to crumble twenty-four hours later when a sensible person points out that their proposal for including Grasshopper Club Zurich into the Highland League brings the set-up to 19 teams and that's unmanageable due to fixture restrictions.

[Whitburn Vale]

As things stand, non-HFL licenced clubs north or the Tay have no route into the Pyramid. The HFL dont appear to be accepting new clubs at the bottom end, so how can we have a Pyramid? At least the LL will eventually have some form of promotion/relegation to the EoSFL/SoSFL, but that appears a long way off in the north.

I cant see the HFL encouraging the North Juniors to leave the SJFA en-masse and hook up with an expanded HFL system, same with the NCL, so there seems to be a sort of impasse north of the Tay which suits the HFL.

I wonder what would happen if Golspie and Banks ODee both licenced asked to join the HFL next season and were refused, what would the SFA do?

What the SFA should be doing is sorting the whole of non league Scotland out,remember burnie man the junior attitude down here is pretty crap towards the northern juniors,so losing them wouldnt be seen as any great loss to your brethren down here,it could be easily sorted out up there but as you say self interest wins out in Scottish football everytime. Ps. East Stirlingshire look like being club 16 and stick ons for SLFL next season.

[rigano]

What the SFA should be doing is sorting the whole of non league Scotland out,remember burnie man the junior attitude down here is pretty crap towards the northern juniors,so losing them wouldnt be seen as any great loss to your brethren down here,it could be easily sorted out up there but as you say self interest wins out in Scottish football everytime. Ps. East Stirlingshire look like being club 16 and stick ons for SLFL next season.

2 points behind Berwick with game in hand?

[Whitburn Vale]

2 points behind Berwick with game in hand?

Sorry rigano but I can feel it in ma water.

[LongTimeLurker]

I wonder what would happen if Golspie and Banks O’Dee – both licenced – asked to join the HFL next season and were refused, what would the SFA do?

About as much as they did to put Ernie Walker's Think Tank ideas into action.

[surely not!]

As things stand, non-HFL licenced clubs north or the Tay have no route into the Pyramid. The HFL don’t appear to be accepting new clubs at the bottom end, so how can we have a Pyramid? At least the LL will eventually have some form of promotion/relegation to the EoSFL/SoSFL, but that appears a long way off in the north.

I can’t see the HFL encouraging the North Juniors to leave the SJFA en-masse and hook up with an expanded HFL system, same with the NCL, so there seems to be a sort of impasse north of the Tay which suits the HFL.

I wonder what would happen if Golspie and Banks O’Dee – both licenced – asked to join the HFL next season and were refused, what would the SFA do?

It's a pyramid due to the structure at the bottom being wider than the top. Does it have enough levels? No. Does it have all the teams it should? No. Does it do what they do in England? No. BUT it's still a pyramid at the moment so it's what we'll have to go with until the teams themselves- through licensing, progress on the park etc can change it and force something different.

[LongTimeLurker]

Licensing is a red herring on this because EoS and SoS clubs are already in the so called pyramid without it. The SFA never had any intention of integrating all the levels of the game into a single structure. If they had wanted to their first step would have been to get rid of the affiliated national associations like the SJFA and SAFA.

[HomelandsOur]

What's the point of the pyramid then? It's given clubs who through chance, happened to be playing in one of three non-leagues (or amateur leagues) a route into the SPFL. The vast majority of clubs are in the SJFA and have no chance.

[Burnie_man]

It's a pyramid due to the structure at the bottom being wider than the top. Does it have enough levels? No. Does it have all the teams it should? No. Does it do what they do in England? No. BUT it's still a pyramid at the moment so it's what we'll have to go with until the teams themselves- through licensing, progress on the park etc can change it and force something different.

It's not a pyramid if you can't get into it in the first place regardless of licence!

[Whitburn Vale]

What's the point of the pyramid then? It's given clubs who through chance, happened to be playing in one of three non-leagues (or amateur leagues) a route into the SPFL. The vast majority of clubs are in the SJFA and have no chance.

That is correct,apart from the two licensed juniors,lithgae and banks plus the super league winners and sjfa cup winners who get to play in the big scottish the rest are playing in their own wee bubble.

[edinabear]

Linlithgow would be an excellent addition to the LL, would really move it in the right direction.

What I've only recently appreciated was that the juniors already had a 3 tier regional pyramid system that could have slotted perfectly below the spfl, obviously with the addition of eofs and sofs clubs

The only way I can see this working is to form an LL2 with the top clubs of west juniors, east juniors, eofs and sofs. Then use the existing junior pyramid to feed into that, moving the remaining senior teams across

[lionel hutz]

Having looked at the Junior clubs and non-pyramid senior clubs, I found that 8 clubs outside the pyramid had licenses. And another 40 clubs had either aspirations to gain a license or had fulfilled, or nearly fulfilled the criteria for one.

Clubs With a license
Juniors: Banks O'Dee (North), Linlithgow Rose (East)
EoS Leagues: Burntisland, CSS, Coldstream, HRA
SoS: Wigtown and Bladnoch
NCFL: Golspie Sutherland

Clubs I deemed as partial e.g. could achieve a License based on their ground with a little bit of work:

East Juniors: Bonnyrigg Rose, Broxburn Athletic, Hill of Beath Hawthorn, Kelty Hearts, Newtongrange Star, Sauchie Juniors, Dalkeith Thistle, Falkirk Juniors, Haddington Athletic, Downfield, Dundee North End, Glenrothes, Kirriemuir Thistle, Blackburn United, Dunbar Utd

West Juniors: Auchinleck Talbot, Glenafton Athletic, Hurlford United, Irvine Meadow, Petershill, Pollok, Cumnock, Greenock, Largs Thistle, Rutherglen Glencairn, Whitletts Victoria, Carluke Rovers, Maryhill, Renfrew, Rossvale, Benburb, Port Glasgow

North Juniors: Aberdeen Uni and Lewis United

Eos League: Duns

SoS League: Creetown, Edusport, Newton Stewart and St Cuthbert Wanderers

NCFL: Halkirk United

The vast majority of these clubs will most likely have no interest in joining the pyramid but I was surprised to learn the disparity between the North and East/West Juniors in stadia.

[Jute]

Having looked at the Junior clubs and non-pyramid senior clubs, I found that 8 clubs outside the pyramid had licenses. And another 40 clubs had either aspirations to gain a license or had fulfilled, or nearly fulfilled the criteria for one.

Clubs With a license

Juniors: Banks O'Dee (North), Linlithgow Rose (East)

EoS Leagues: Burntisland, CSS, Coldstream, HRA

SoS: Wigtown and Bladnoch

Clubs I deemed as partial e.g. could achieve a License based on their ground with a little bit of work:

East Juniors: Bonnyrigg Rose, Broxburn Athletic, Hill of Beath Hawthorn, Kelty Hearts, Newtongrange Star, Sauchie Juniors, Dalkeith Thistle, Falkirk Juniors, Haddington Athletic, Downfield, Dundee North End, Glenrothes, Kirriemuir Thistle, Blackburn United, Dunbar Utd

West Juniors: Auchinleck Talbot, Glenafton Athletic, Hurlford United, Irvine Meadow, Petershill, Pollok, Cumnock, Greenock, Largs Thistle, Rutherglen Glencairn, Whitletts Victoria, Carluke Rovers, Maryhill, Renfrew, Rossvale, Benburb, Port Glasgow

North Juniors: Aberdeen Uni and Lewis United

Eos League: Duns

SoS League: Creetown, Edusport, Newton Stewart and St Cuthbert Wanderers

NCFL: Halkirk United

The vast majority of these clubs will most likely have no interest in joining the pyramid but I was surprised to learn the disparity between the North and East/West Juniors in stadia.

You missed Golspie Sutherland from your list of licenced clubs.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

It's not a pyramid if you can't get into it in the first place regardless of licence!

Which countries do have a "proper" pyramid then?

England? Germany? France? Faroe Islands?

All of these places have certain levels and minimum facilities required for each stage of their pyramids. Why is the Scottish pyramid any different?

[calmac25]

I think he might mean because golspie and banks o Dee can't get in up north? Nearly 3 years on from the creation of the progressive system and the association's still haven't clarified what the long term plan is

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Ah. Got ye now....


...carry on

[dg1]

Is there even relegation from the lowland league?

[HibeeJibee]

Yes... If either EOSL or SOSL champion is licensed, they are promoted and bottom of LL is relegated. If both are licensed they playoff. It is more likely from this season as several EOSL/SOSL clubs are licensed.