cmontheloknow Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I'm used to green-dotting you as you talk loads of sense but come on. 5 divisions? This grows arms and legs every time. Presumably you go to Pollok AGMs so have you any idea what sort of turnover they have and what proportion of that is gate money? The reason I'm asking is, it's easy to get into a 'grass is always greener' type argument about seniors v juniors. The amount spent to gain a license sometimes gains mythical status amongst Junior fans, as does the amount of SFA handouts. I was at Beith yesterday and I would say 2 or 3 gates like yesterday would wipe out any SFA money Whitehill got last season. Our bar income is more significant than any handouts (but I can't speak for other clubs). We're probably one of the bigger clubs in the LL but some weeks the gate money hardly pays the officials, which incidentally are dearer in the LL, and 3 officials is mandatory. However I realise that adds fuel to the Juniors argument about the LL being full of diddy clubs. As far as playing standards and crowds goes, the LL is probably in its rightful place below League 2 if it wasn't for the presence of the 160 or so Junior clubs to muddy the waters. For the record I've said many times that I'm not into this whole divisive seniors v juniors thing. My club are bang in the middle of junior country and we play them in friendlies and transfer players back and forth. They're just clubs run by decent people just like ours. Whitehill happen to be in the senior setup because, rightly or wrongly, that's what the committee chose in 1979 or thereabouts when we stepped up from Juvenile. I have to say the worst parochialism is over in Ayrshire and some parts of the Glasgow area where people like Isa have never been out of Ayrshire and think clubs in the East are all middle class I'm looking at it more from the POV that we are a West club and most LL sides are East - there are no fixtures that would be a decent replacement for the current bigger games in the league. In terms of five divisions: LL West Super West First Central 1 Central 2 If Lok left the LL they'd have to rejoin the Juniors in Central 2 - to me that is 5 divisions going from tier 5 to tier 9. I am not a member of PFC just now so have no idea what current level of turnover is but fact is that in the West Juniors, players are well-paid for this level but high(ish) gate income allows for that. I understand a lot of LL sides do not pay anything beyond expenses. It's a very different set-up. I don't see how a club could stay in our division with the model used by LL clubs. If everyone did it, it's a different story of course, but they don't. I reckon you need a minimum wage budget of £40,000 a year to have a chance of staying up though there are clubs paying way more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Hawick Royal Albert are the derby rivals of Gala Fairydean Rovers (note name, wretch!) - so having them both in the same division once more would certainly be a plus factor from the point of view of local interest as the Gala - Hawick rivalry is one that extends well beyond football. A Hawick Royal Albert with the possibility of one day becoming a national league side is a far more tantalizing prospect for local football fans than their current sorry state. The converse to that is of course whether HRA are fit enough for that. It may well be that their situation is similar to that of the other Royal Albert which in the 1920s gave them their name, and who joined the infamous Scottish Division 3 because they'd little choice if they wanted to avoid a slow lingering death & have any chance of a future. However unless they improve off the field & on the field enough to justify their inclusion, that is not going to happen. For that they need money, & I for one don't know where that's going to come from. I am in full agreement that Civil Service Strollers should be kept out - no works teams, least of all one that's had the rules bent for them by the footballing authorities time and time again to appease governmental mandarins. Wager you a jelly and ice cream that HRA in LL will struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mantis Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Wager you a jelly and ice cream that HRA in LL will struggle. Agreed. But 9-5 = 4 surely A 4 division drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Agreed. But 9-5 = 4 surely A 4 division drop. When Rangers reappeared in the 3rd Division how many said they'd gone down 4 divisions? But eiether way, it is unacceptable to have that sort of scenario facing any club at the top end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mantis Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Hordes of uneducated bluenoses probably. Not esteemed gentlemen like yourself or pedants like me. Unless you were going around telling everybody Lok got promoted 2 divisions last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
come on shire Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I think Hawick RA will struggle BUT I'd be glad if I'm proven wrong. I'm just not sure if there has ever been the player or fan base whereas next door to them in excess of 60 players, playing in front of far bigger crowds, have pulled on the Scotland jersey. Also, Hawick is more famous for their woolen mills which have sadly shut down and a certain Mr.McLaren. Therefore, do they have the fan base and sustainability? Who knows but all the best to them. I'm looking forward to some good away trips next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Wager you a jelly and ice cream that HRA in LL will struggle. Football fans are a contrary lot. How many merrily went along to watch East Kilbride playing in an unknown new league that had avoided the long established East Kilbride Thistle like the plague? Of course, there was also the certain matter of facilities on offer as well, but we've been through that argument before, but amazing what the prospect of being able to join the big kids league does to raise interest. Incidentally Hawick Royal Albert have just enjoyed one of their best seasons in years (a very respectable fifth), and surprise surprise Cilla the locals suddenly gave a damn. Now maybe if one of those nice Asian betting syndicates that took such an interest in their Scottish Cup matches a few seasons ago could be persuaded to reinvest their money in the club... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Football fans are a contrary lot. How many merrily went along to watch East Kilbride playing in an unknown new league that had avoided the long established East Kilbride Thistle like the plague? Of course, there was also the certain matter of facilities on offer as well, but we've been through that argument before, but amazing what the prospect of being able to join the big kids league does to raise interest. Incidentally Hawick Royal Albert have just enjoyed one of their best seasons in years (a very respectable fifth), and surprise surprise Cilla the locals suddenly gave a damn. Now maybe if one of those nice Asian betting syndicates that took such an interest in their Scottish Cup matches a few seasons ago could be persuaded to reinvest their money in the club... DO EK get much of a following? Looks a bit thin on what video footage is on youtube. Are people watching Hawick this year in any sort of number? Wil they be there if they go up a league and struggle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Hordes of uneducated bluenoses probably. Not esteemed gentlemen like yourself or pedants like me. Unless you were going around telling everybody Lok got promoted 2 divisions last year And all this pedantry doesn't alter the issue that for WW to revert to old league means a drop of one division whereas for the likes of Pollok it would mean starting well down the ladder. And who knows, it could genuinely be a five division drop in future as the last reorganisation vote was for 5 all-in West divisions. Unless this issue gets resolved satisfactorily (which either means an agreement to return to the former division* or for full integration of the SJFA set-up in pyramid, a bit doubtful just now) I can't see a big Junior name going for it. (*if the pathway downwards was LL to Junior Superleague, a team from the bottom West league could apply, get in, finish bottom and enter Super Prem, effectively going from Central 2nd to Super Prem in one season. Unlikely but you never know!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 DO EK get much of a following? Looks a bit thin on what video footage is on youtube. ...and EK Thistle once pretty much filled the Copland Road stand at Ibrox at a junior cup final (was in the Broomloan supporting Bo'ness), so many thousands showing up for a high profile cup game is nothing new. I suspect EKFC will get into the SPFL in the next few years given there are relatively few viable candidates for sustained league entry in the new tier 5 but building up a regular core support will be a generational thing rather than something that happens overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Boyles Cat Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Told on good authority that the decision on who joins the LL will be made tomorrow night (6 Jun 16). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinabear Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 If Edusport get in we may as well just forget about this pyramid having any status or respectibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitburn Vale Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Less than 5000 at the showpiece final with a team Beith that plays not too far away from Rugby Park and Pollok probably junior fitba's best supported club. Now 4800 odds is still good for a non league fitba final but it's nowhere near the crowds they used to get for it also I was at Whitburn v Pumphy a few weeks ago,Whitburn just needed a point to get promoted,there was 100 there,again in days gone by there would have been 3 or 4 times that number. So apart from the still reasonably well supported final,quite clearly interest in the junior game is waning,I'm not buying into this,it's healthy crap because quite clearly a lot of people aren't interested. Also the constant sniping at the LL is tiring it truly is,best of luck to the club's that join,can see EK,Spartans being in the SPFL before too long,now that is one bet I will take with anyone!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surely not! Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Less than 5000 at the showpiece final with a team Beith that plays not too far away from Rugby Park and Pollok probably junior fitba's best supported club. Now 4800 odds is still good for a non league fitba final but it's nowhere near the crowds they used to get for it also I was at Whitburn v Pumphy a few weeks ago,Whitburn just needed a point to get promoted,there was 100 there,again in days gone by there would have been 3 or 4 times that number. So apart from the still reasonably well supported final,quite clearly interest in the junior game is waning,I'm not buying into this,it's healthy crap because quite clearly a lot of people aren't interested. Also the constant sniping at the LL is tiring it truly is,best of luck to the club's that join,can see EK,Spartans being in the SPFL before too long,now that is one bet I will take with anyone!! No point taking the bet. The guy offering it will get banned from the forum and the charity will miss out..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 If Edusport get in we may as well just forget about this pyramid having any status or respectibility Based on teams applying for the league for vacancies, I wouldn't want Edusport in. If, however, they win the South of Scotland League in the future then they should absolutely be allowed up. At least they are one of the few teams who want to play in the Lowland League and have achieved their licence and appear to be ambitious. Of course they are very far from an ideal type of team to be playing at tier five but you could easily say that about others too. Hawick have been very poor playing-wise for a long, long time (although credit to them for massively improving their league position this year) and Civil Service are yet another Edinburgh team with very little support. I'd support both of those teams being in the league (based on applications) ahead of Edusport for sure but the choices here are weak and there are very limited options in terms of teams actively wanting to be a part of the Lowland League. Although I should add that I find it a bit questionable that they get a licence when they represent no town and seem to play wherever they can in a licensed ground. Different situation to clubs like East Stirlingshire, BSC etc. who at least play in their own area and represent a place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kebabs Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 I hope common sense prevails. In my opinion it's a no brainer that Hawick should be there. Iv read a lot about how Hawick have been poor over the years and granted they have been. But this season the new management team bring in a whole new team and got rid of every single player bar One who is now a coach there. The squad Is transformed and have done really well this year. Some of the players that came are experienced and have played higher level than lowland league. And the young lads that came in are very good. I'm not saying they will win the lowland by any stretch but with a couple of new additions they are mote than capable of staying in the league and building a cracking side. In addition with massive derby's with gala and also Selkirk which will generate good home and travelling crowds. I think it's the most attractive of the three teams supplying by an absaloute country mile. Wish them all the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
info Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Based on teams applying for the league for vacancies, I wouldn't want Edusport in. If, however, they win the South of Scotland League in the future then they should absolutely be allowed up. At least they are one of the few teams who want to play in the Lowland League and have achieved their licence and appear to be ambitious. Of course they are very far from an ideal type of team to be playing at tier five but you could easily say that about others too. Hawick have been very poor playing-wise for a long, long time (although credit to them for massively improving their league position this year) and Civil Service are yet another Edinburgh team with very little support. I'd support both of those teams being in the league (based on applications) ahead of Edusport for sure but the choices here are weak and there are very limited options in terms of teams actively wanting to be a part of the Lowland League. Although I should add that I find it a bit questionable that they get a licence when they represent no town and seem to play wherever they can in a licensed ground. Different situation to clubs like East Stirlingshire, BSC etc. who at least play in their own area and represent a place. Not quite. BSC had no ground at the end of the season and are now going to play their "home " games 35 miles away from their own area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Not quite. BSC had no ground at the end of the season and are now going to play their "home " games 35 miles away from their own area. That'll be their choice,not the best scenario for them but least they will survive in the LL (I presume) unlike other clubs who've downed tools... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
come on shire Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Told on good authority that the decision on who joins the LL will be made tomorrow night (6 Jun 16). What time this evening do we find out the news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 What time this evening do we find out the news? LL twitter saying announced today at 1:30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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