Team 16?

[newcastle broon]

42 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

They actually did, in an SJFA survey. There's nothing further Junior clubs can do until there is a realisation that the LL as it stands is flawed.

Once that is put on the table, then we all have something to work from and bluffs can be called.

As I said above, that will only happen when either the EoS collapses, or if more clubs refuse promotion or withdraw from the LL, or LL clubs themselves raise the issue.

You could start by lobbying your club to raise the issue at LL meetings :-)

So it's all the fault of the LL. 

You just can't wait for the day the LL folds eh,we'll I think you are in for a long wait. 

As for me to lobby my team,I find it hard enough to get to places on a matchday from over 100 miles+ away without having to pester folk. 

I just go to the match to enjoy the fitba no matter what league my team is in.

Yer earlier idea of the East West split is definitely feasible though,I'd certainly go along wi that.

[Burnie_man]

53 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

So it's all the fault of the LL. 

You just can't wait for the day the LL folds eh,we'll I think you are in for a long wait. 

As for me to lobby my team,I find it hard enough to get to places on a matchday from over 100 miles+ away without having to pester folk. 

I just go to the match to enjoy the fitba no matter what league my team is in.

Yer earlier idea of the East West split is definitely feasible though,I'd certainly go along wi that.

 

It's everyone's fault, but as the saying goes we are where we are and a compromise needs to be found (well, if anyone actually admits that there's a problem).

Not sure where you think I want the LL to fold, I want it to be reformed (as you do) and the power lies with the LL clubs to initiate this but that's turkeys voting for Christmas stuff. Fans lobbying their clubs would be a step forward though.

Whitehill Welfare v Bonnyrigg Rose or Newtongrange Star is a wee bit more attractive for everyone than WW v BSC Alloa/Glasgow, and its a bit mad that nobody is making more noise about why this is not happening.

[VodkaTap]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

They actually did, in an SJFA survey. There's nothing further Junior clubs can do until there is a realisation that the LL as it stands is flawed.

Once that is put on the table, then we all have something to work from and bluffs can be called.

As I said above, that will only happen when either the EoS collapses, or if more clubs refuse promotion or withdraw from the LL, or LL clubs themselves raise the issue.

You could start by lobbying your club to raise the issue at LL meetings :-)

Your claim that there is nothing more that junior clubs can do ?? - nothing could be further from the truth !!

How about sorting out a pathway up and down for starters.

Until that is sorted - and that is a matter entirely for the SJFA  clubs themselves.

NO junior club will entertain the idea of combining with another league without having some sort of idea of all the relevant facts and their relegation destination is a major factor in any junior clubs thinking.

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, VodkaTap said:

Your claim that there is nothing more that junior clubs can do ?? - nothing could be further from the truth !!

How about sorting out a pathway up and down for starters.

Until that is sorted - and that is a matter entirely for the SJFA  clubs themselves.

NO junior club will entertain the idea of combining with another league without having some sort of idea of all the relevant facts and their relegation destination is a major factor in any junior clubs thinking.

A pathway to where exactly? the feeder leagues are SoS or EoS, there is no direct access to the LL and rightly or wrongly as it stands, if a club leaves the SJFA and joins eg. EoS League, they would have to rejoin the SJFA at the bottom rung if they decide to come back. However, I'd be gobsmacked if any Junior club left to join the SoS or EoS regardless, the flow in the East is the other way (Easthouses and Craigroyston).

As has been said umpteen times, until the LL is reformed into a sensible West and East structure, you will have absolutely no involvement from the SJFA, and very few Junior clubs will be interested. They have already rejected the SJFA's version of a LL (a combined West/East Superleague) because it doesn't make sense.

 

[Cicero]

I look at the example of East Kilbride.  The town is probably the largest in Scotland without SPFL representation.  Until the formation of the LL, they would have had to bide their time until a current SPFL club goes out of business.  The LL may be a way ensuring that one of the largest population centres in Scotland has national league representation.  The town's  ex-amateur club are now going from strength to strength and I predict that they will be in the SPFL next season.

East Kilbride Thistle, despite recently winning the "holy Grail", are very much the second team in the town,  They have achieved the best that could be achieved in their grade of football but could not go further.  If  they had the option of progressing further up the football pyramid, maybe they would still be the top dogs in the town.

The LL may not be perfect but clubs at least have the option of progressing .  That does not mean, that all clubs in the LL have the means to play in  the national league and perhaps the LL is their correct level.  I see Gretna as an example of that.  However if things go well on and off the park in the future, then the path to league football is still open and more importantly if things didn't work out, we would fall back to a correct level.

[lionel hutz]

 

7 minutes ago, Cicero said:

I look at the example of East Kilbride.  The town is probably the largest in Scotland without SPFL representation.  Until the formation of the LL, they would have had to bide their time until a current SPFL club goes out of business.  The LL may be a way ensuring that one of the largest population centres in Scotland has national league representation.  The town's  ex-amateur club are now going from strength to strength and I predict that they will be in the SPFL next season.

East Kilbride Thistle, despite recently winning the "holy Grail", are very much the second team in the town,  They have achieved the best that could be achieved in their grade of football but could not go further.  If  they had the option of progressing further up the football pyramid, maybe they would still be the top dogs in the town.

The LL may not be perfect but clubs at least have the option of progressing .  That does not mean, that all clubs in the LL have the means to play in  the national league and perhaps the LL is their correct level.  I see Gretna as an example of that.  However if things go well on and off the park in the future, then the path to league football is still open and more importantly if things didn't work out, we would fall back to a correct level.

Everyone (that knows anything about Scottish football) has heard of East Kilbride after their Scottish Cup run and LL success but not of EK Thistle, tbf I didn't know they existed until 6 months ago.

EK get 150-200 each week through the gate and the LL has been the catalyst for it. They probably have one of the strongest non-league followings in the country.

[Burnie_man]

28 minutes ago, Cicero said:

I look at the example of East Kilbride.  The town is probably the largest in Scotland without SPFL representation.  Until the formation of the LL, they would have had to bide their time until a current SPFL club goes out of business.  The LL may be a way ensuring that one of the largest population centres in Scotland has national league representation.  The town's  ex-amateur club are now going from strength to strength and I predict that they will be in the SPFL next season.

East Kilbride Thistle, despite recently winning the "holy Grail", are very much the second team in the town,  They have achieved the best that could be achieved in their grade of football but could not go further.  If  they had the option of progressing further up the football pyramid, maybe they would still be the top dogs in the town.

The LL may not be perfect but clubs at least have the option of progressing .  That does not mean, that all clubs in the LL have the means to play in  the national league and perhaps the LL is their correct level.  I see Gretna as an example of that.  However if things go well on and off the park in the future, then the path to league football is still open and more importantly if things didn't work out, we would fall back to a correct level.

I don’t particularly dispute much of the above (although I think it’s over 30 years since East Kilbride Thistle won the Junior Cup at Ibrox and they are a club which have been in decline for longer than the LL has existed). The LL has been good for a handful of clubs, there’s no denying that and I’m not saying that the concept of the LL is a bad thing, of course it’s not.

 

On the flip side we have one of its two feeders shedding clubs to Junior football, others folding, and only two of the remaining members are licenced who will not compete for promotion anytime soon. In the other feeder, we have St.Cuthberts less than keen on promotion, with Threave withdrawing from the LL altogether. Not everything is good.

 

A blind man can tell you that a single division of 16 clubs for the whole of Scotland south of the Tay is not the way forward, and to suggest that this needs reformed is not being critical of the actual concept of the LL, just recognising that we can do much better and get the whole of non-league football involved in a sensible structure that accurately reflects the population spread, and the spread of clubs.

 

Some Junior clubs will remain opposed to this of course, and some LL clubs will no doubt be opposed for their own reasons.

[Burnie_man]

18 minutes ago, Marr1 said:

 

Everyone (that knows anything about Scottish football) has heard of East Kilbride after their Scottish Cup run and LL success but not of EK Thistle, tbf I didn't know they existed until 6 months ago.

EK get 150-200 each week through the gate and the LL has been the catalyst for it. They probably have one of the strongest non-league followings in the country.

Anyone that knows anything about Scottish Junior football has heard of EK Thistle.

[Bankies Alive]

I went to a game at EK last season aginst Cumbernauld and there was nowhere near 150-200 at it! About 100 if you were lucky.

EK Thistle were doing well until their club got burned down and this was followed by mismanagement,it had nothing to do with them not being able to progress.

The pyramid just doesnt exist! The EoS league is imploding as Burnie says with clubs joining the Juniors and the SoS league is a pub league. Threave resigning from the LL proves that  league and area that it covers is unsuitable to be a feeder to the LL.

You have clubs in the LL like BSC sharing at Alloa and Stirling Uni leaving Stirling to share at Falkirk and Civil Service whatever community that is supposed to serve! Its a joke it really is.

 

It wont change because Regan doesnt give a shit what it looks like and has his box ticked for creating a pyramid system even though the vast majority of non league clubs arent involved and it is dysfunctional.

The LL only has EK and Cumbernauld based in the biggest population area in the nation.Anyone who thinks that is the correct set up is clearly mad.

If the LL proposed two divisions with an East/West split with clubs given a couple of seasons to gain a license im sure theyd get plenty of Junior interest.

 

 

[bendan]

If we had all waited until someone came up with an idea acceptable to all, there would never be any change. I think just going ahead with a crappy set up is a much better idea than not doing it. There are all kinds of issues with the LL, but clubs like EK are showing that setting it up was the right thing to do. Over time it will evolve into something better.

[Burnie_man]

17 minutes ago, bendan said:

If we had all waited until someone came up with an idea acceptable to all, there would never be any change. I think just going ahead with a crappy set up is a much better idea than not doing it. There are all kinds of issues with the LL, but clubs like EK are showing that setting it up was the right thing to do. Over time it will evolve into something better.

I don't think anyone disputes that it was the correct thing to do.  After three full seasons, its now time to take stock and look at including all non-league clubs to make it a true Pyramid.

[newcastle broon]

1 hour ago, Bankies Alive said:

I went to a game at EK last season aginst Cumbernauld and there was nowhere near 150-200 at it! About 100 if you were lucky.

The pyramid just doesnt exist! 

You have clubs in the LL like BSC sharing at Alloa and Stirling Uni leaving Stirling to share at Falkirk and Civil Service whatever community that is supposed to serve! Its a joke it really is.

The LL only has EK and Cumbernauld based in the biggest population area in the nation.Anyone who thinks that is the correct set up is clearly mad.

If the LL proposed two divisions with an East/West split with clubs given a couple of seasons to gain a license im sure theyd get plenty of Junior interest.

 

 

1) what is it wi the Juniors crowd obsessions for the umpteenth time crowds don't win games ? 

2) the pyramid does exist just folk won't admit it.

3) the uni of Stirling sharing with Falkirk does make sense,if you knew owt about them?? I'm fairly certain Falkirk have their training facilities within the grounds of the university itself

4) I'm willing to bet a weeks wages BOTH Cumbernauld and EK will be in the SPFL leagues within 5 years (Cumbernauld are vastly under estimated this season by the way) 

5) agreed but again it's no up to the LL nor is it their fault to arrange this? 

[lionel hutz]

Are Cumbernauld Colts planning to have their own ground? (I mean a more suitable ground)
 

also...

A Cumbernauld vs Clyde play-off would hilarious! 

[newcastle broon]

6 minutes ago, Marr1 said:

Are Cumbernauld Colts planning to have their own ground? (I mean a more suitable ground)
 

also...

A Cumbernauld vs Clyde play-off would hilarious! 

Don't know but I think they have more rights to Broadwood than Clyde have. 

Maybe someone wi local knowledge can answer that one.....

[Bankies Alive]

33 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

1) what is it wi the Juniors crowd obsessions for the umpteenth time crowds don't win games ? 

2) the pyramid does exist just folk won't admit it.

3) the uni of Stirling sharing with Falkirk does make sense,if you knew owt about them?? I'm fairly certain Falkirk have their training facilities within the grounds of the university itself

4) I'm willing to bet a weeks wages BOTH Cumbernauld and EK will be in the SPFL leagues within 5 years (Cumbernauld are vastly under estimated this season by the way) 

5) agreed but again it's no up to the LL nor is it their fault to arrange this? 

No obsession with crowds but someone was bumming up EK saying they get between 150 and 200 which isn't the case!

The pyramid exists on paper but in reality its just the old EoS bolted on to the SPFL.

I think the name Stirling should give the game away there!

I doubt the SPFL will survive in its current state for another 5 years.

Its the SFA`s job to arrange it if they were remotely interested(which they aren't) Regan knows nothing about Scottish non-league football as his pyramid botch up would suggest.

[lionel hutz]

11 minutes ago, Bankies Alive said:

No obsession with crowds but someone was bumming up EK saying they get between 150 and 200 which isn't the case!

The pyramid exists on paper but in reality its just the old EoS bolted on to the SPFL.

I think the name Stirling should give the game away there!

I doubt the SPFL will survive in its current state for another 5 years.

Its the SFA`s job to arrange it if they were remotely interested(which they aren't) Regan knows nothing about Scottish non-league football as his pyramid botch up would suggest.

I asked on Twitter and they said around 150-200 to League games

ETA: it was Youtube not Twitter.

In the comments of the match against Selkirk

[Hillonearth]

20 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Don't know but I think they have more rights to Broadwood than Clyde have. 

Maybe someone wi local knowledge can answer that one.....

I'm not local, but I'm sure they're primary tenants there.

Clyde have been actively been looking to get out of Cumbernauld for a few years now, with various ideas being floated like sharing at Rutherglen, Shettleston and strangely enough EK. The experiment of moving a league club to one of the new towns hasn't really worked out, which is why I say its strange they would consider trying it again in EK - you could say the same about Livingston to a lesser extent.

The problem with new towns is they most people who live in them have originally come from somewhere else and arrive there with allegiances to clubs already in place, mostly it has to be said to one of the ugly sisters. It's very different to say the NFL where you can drop an expansion team into any city and the population will instantly fall into "Go, team!" mode.

[newcastle broon]

23 minutes ago, Bankies Alive said:

 

I think the name Stirling should give the game away there!

 

Not sure what you mean by that but the Uni of Stirling playing at Falkirk certainly makes sense,as I said given where Falkirk FC training facilities are,they are maybes tied in with one another at some point  ? 

Then again you have East Stirlingshire playing where..........

 

[Bankies Alive]

5 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Not sure what you mean by that but the Uni of Stirling playing at Falkirk certainly makes sense,as I said given where Falkirk FC training facilities are,they are maybes tied in with one another at some point  ? 

Then again you have East Stirlingshire playing where..........

 

So are they Falkirk B then?

[MacGafraidh]

There is anomalies all over the shop, Falkirk and Stirling Uni, BSC playing at Alloa, Shire playing in Stenny it is farcical. TBH inviting the juniors is we couldn't do any worse! 

 

I have always believed that Clyde should never have moved to Cumbernauld and found a place in EK, Then we wouldn't have EKFC as there would have been no point.