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Making a Murderer


ICTChris

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I'm always wary of documentaries which show the story from one side of the argument so I tried to stay open minded in this one. He is an arsehole (the way they glossed over the cat thing was outrageous IMO) but I don't think he murdered this lassie. I think the majority of the police thought they were getting the guilty party and tried ever so hard to make things stick. I also think the community/jurors were swayed by the reputation of the family and thought - like Kachinsky said - they were doing the world a favour by locking him up.

I wonder how the trial would have went with an out of town jury. I'm not familiar with the legal system but this series is likely to get him a retrial and he is likely to have very very good lawyers working pro bono knowing they will get a piece of that civil suit if he is freed (not like Strang and Buting weren't excellent).

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A lot of it was actually on the show as well

Some of it was - I wrote a list of things that weren't in the show initially, but the one I posted was more thorough. I'd not seen the last two episodes either.

I think he did it, but I think they have the sequence of events wrong, and there probably was some evidence tampering.

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I remember when folk used to spoiler stuff not to ruin it for folk.

A simpler time.

A happier time.

In my personal defence I wrote up it contained spoilers as it's a pain in the arse to add tags on the phone.

But to fair to others, you're asking for trouble going into a TV topic if you're not up to date. I tend to avoid them unless I've watched the latest episode.

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What's the script with Brendan not being able to change lawyer?

The boy defending him is an absolute twat.

Mental that his "evidence" has even made it to court.

He clearly has special needs and has been coerced into making these statements. The bit where the guy tells him to draw scenes is a joke.

America is a truly backwards place at times.

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Use spoilers next time please. I usually come into threads to see what people think of the show, not to be told of the whole thing and it's spoilers. When I see spoilers I don't click it. See people who put the spoilers for people not to see straight away, there good c***s. Rethink your life over. Shite decision.

All ten episodes have been able to view since the 18th December. The general rule is that spoilers should be used when a British viewing is behind America on it's broadcasting. This isn't the case here. If you don't want to see a spoiler, don't click on the thread.

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Use spoilers next time please. I usually come into threads to see what people think of the show, not to be told of the whole thing and it's spoilers. When I see spoilers I don't click it. See people who put the spoilers for people not to see straight away, there good c***s. Rethink your life over. Shite decision.

As I say I write if there is potential spoilers. I make no apology for not putting tags in.

If it was an episode a week I'd put them in incase folk hadn't caught up but with it being a 10 parter all in one then IMO you ask for trouble if you enter the discussion not being up to date. Folk can't discuss this show without spoiling it for folk who haven't watched it. And I don't think those who've watched it should have to tag everything they write. Folk should just steer clear until they've watched it then come in and have their discussion :P

There are two shows in this forum where I'm a few episodes behind. I've not ventured back into those topics as I wouldn't expect folk to use spoilers if they're up to date.

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Can't say I've been that gripped by a show in a long time. When it was getting to the end of the first episode I wondered where it could go from there but I was shocked with what came next. Truely shocking but it made an excellent TV show. Just wonder what will happen next?

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I enjoyed the show and although it was certainly a skewed documentary, focusing on the few areas that seem clearly to show how he was targeted, much else was left out.

I'm now watching the Jinx - similar sort of thing

The jinx I download

The Jinx is probably a better show. If only for the final episode, if nothing else. For those of you who enjoyed Making A Murderer, I thoroughly recommend The Jinx.

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There was some evidence that the show didn't cover:

Edited because someone on reddit covered it more thoroughly:

Circumstantial Evidence

  • Theresa visits Steven, who has specifically requested her and makes an appointment using a false name. He is the last known person to see her alive. He calls her three times that day—twice with *67, but the last time without it.

  • Experts say Theresa was shot with a .22, just like the one in Steven Avery’s room, hanging above his bed with the name "Steve" in masking tape on the muzzle loader. This gun is taken into evidence on the first day of the search and was found to be the gun that fired the bullet embedded in the garage floor.

  • Steve has a bonfire the night of the murder. Theresa’s burnt bones are found throughout his yard.

  • According to Brendan’s mom, Brendan came home the night of the murder with bleach on his jeans and told her he was helping Steven clean the garage. His jeans with bleach on them are submitted as evidence.

DNA:
  • Steve’s and Theresa’s blood is found in Theresa’s car, and Steve has a cut on his finger.

  • Steve’s sweat is found on the hood latch of the car.

  • Theresa’s DNA is found on a bullet in the garage.

  • Steve's DNA is on the RAV4 key found in his bedroom

Character:
  • Characterized as manipulative by his family and prone to outbursts of anger. Almost no one in his family believes he’s innocent.

  • Theresa supposedly finds him creepy and requests not to go over there anymore after he answers his door in only a towel.

1985 and before:
  • Robbed a bar.

  • Doused a cat in gasoline and threw it in the fire, killing it.

  • Ran a female relative off the road and pointed a gun at her head. 6 of his 18 years in prison are spent for this crime.

In prison:
  • Wrote disturbing letters to ex-wife and kids about killing his ex-wife.

  • Supposedly told inmates about plans for a torture chamber and how burning a body is best for getting rid of DNA.

2003 and after:
  • In early 2006, Steven Avery’s relative accuses him of sexually assaulting her in 2004 when she was 16 (it was investigated in 2004, but she did not admit to it then because he threatened to kill her family if she did). If Avery wasn’t convicted of murder, he was going to be charged for this.
Police tampering:
  • Manitowoc police are involved in some of the crime scene investigation, but there is no direct evidence of any tampering, only speculation.

  • The hole in the blood vial is perfectly normal (as pointed out several times here, never in the documentary). While the ripped tape is weird, the FBI’s EDTA test showed EDTA in the vial but not in the car stains, leading there to be no legitimate reason to believe blood was planted in the car. The DNA found on the RAV4 hood latch is not from blood, but sweat. Even if LE obtained blood from the vial, it is not clear where they would get Steven Avery's sweat.

The prosecution lawyer also added this:

1. Avery’s past incident with a cat was not “goofing around”. He soaked his cat in gasoline or oil, and put it on a fire to watch it suffer.

2. Avery targeted Teresa. On Oct 31 (8:12 am) he called AutoTrader magazine and asked them to send “that same girl who was here last time.” On Oct 10, Teresa had been to the Avery property when Steve answered the door just wearing a towel. She said she would not go back because she was scared of him (obviously). Avery used a fake name and fake # (his sister’s) giving those to the AutoTrader receptionist, to trick Teresa into coming.

3. Teresa’s phone, camera and PDA were found 20 ft from Avery’s door, burned in his barrel. Why did the documentary not tell the viewers the contents of her purse were in his burn barrel, just north of the front door of his trailer?

4. While in prison, Avery told another inmate of his intent to build a “torture chamber” so he could rape, torture and kill young women when he was released. He even drew a diagram. Another inmate was told by Avery that the way to get rid of a body is to “burn it”…heat destroys DNA.

5. The victim’s bones in the firepit were “intertwined” with the steel belts, left over from the car tires Avery threw on the fire to burn, as described by Dassey. That WAS where her bones were burned! Suggesting that some human bones found elsewhere (never identified as Teresa’s) were from this murder was NEVER established.

6. Also found in the fire pit was Teresa’s tooth (ID’d through dental records), a rivet from the “Daisy Fuentes” jeans she was wearing that day, and the tools used by Avery to chop up her bones during the fire.

7. Phone records show 3 calls from Avery to Teresa’s cell phone on Oct 31. One at 2:24, and one at 2:35–both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn’t know it him…both placed before she arrives. Then one last call at 4:35 pm, without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up (his original defense), so tries to establish the alibi call after she’s already been there, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn’t need the *67 feature for that last call.

8. Avery’s DNA (not blood) was on the victim’s hood latch (under her hood in her hidden SUV). The SUV was at the crime lab since 11/5…how did his DNA get under the hood if Avery never touched her car? Do the cops have a vial of Avery’s sweat to “plant” under the hood?

9. Ballistics said the bullet found in the garage was fired by Avery’s rifle, which was in a police evidence locker since 11/6…if the cops planted the bullet, how did they get one fired from HIS gun? This rifle, hanging over Aver’s bed, is the source of the bullet found in the garage, with Teresa’s DNA on it. The bullet had to be fired BEFORE 11/5—did the cops borrow his gun, fire a bullet, recover the bullet before planting the SUV, then hang on to the bullet for 4 months in case they need to plant it 4 months later???

As has already been stated, a lot of this was covered in the documentary.

Whilst I'm not entirely convinced about his innocence, I believe there was more than enough evidence presented by the defence to bring reasonable doubt into things.

I think the third party liability law is an absolute joke as well. How can you put a reasonable defence up when you can't come out and say who you think the evidence really points to?

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About 3 episodes in i was already thinking, how high up the chain does this go ?

Then Len appears, who appointed him as the kids defence ? One huge cover up going on here all the way to the top.

This all comes from the police guys wife who put in the first complaint, they were out to get him for that, then the lawsuit and damage to force and community, they were out to get him and the kid for that.

Did he kill her ? are the cops involved ?

I watched the whole 10 episodes without looking at the net and i was like this cant be for real, f**k me.

They both need a re-trial.

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Just finished episode 2 and not sure how they manage to eek another 8 shows out of this.

Its interesting stuff so far. The Avery's were typical American hicks, half of them looked liked products of incest but that aside how the "law" were able to cover up and manipate so many things is chilling.

I honestly don't think Avery would have been dumb enough to kill the girl whilst waiting on a payout.

That Katz guy has the most annoying voice since Michael Jackson.

Anyhow, I'm looking forward to seeing how this whole event transpires

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Just finished episode 2 and not sure how they manage to eek another 8 shows out of this.

Its interesting stuff so far. The Avery's were typical American hicks, half of them looked liked products of incest but that aside how the "law" were able to cover up and manipate so many things is chilling.

I honestly don't think Avery would have been dumb enough to kill the girl whilst waiting on a payout.

That Katz guy has the most annoying voice since Michael Jackson.

Anyhow, I'm looking forward to seeing how this whole event transpires

I also don't think he is dumb enough to leave her jeep on his property and hide the keys on his bedroom floor. The slimey looking cop was looking at the vehicle when he called it in to run the number plate.

Who knows maybe he did kill her but that evidence was planted to make sure he was nailed. One things for sure, the nephew had fck all to do with it.

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