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ICTChris

Making a Murderer

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Unless there's a lot of evidence that's hidden from you in the show - I don't think I could have returned a 'guilty beyond reasonable doubt' verdict. There are many doubts from what I've seen in the show.

The police blatantly lying on the stand doesn't help.

That's pretty much my take on it.

Mr Colburn being the worst, closely followed by Lenk.

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Len reminds me of the Wealdstone Raider!

Sack going to these back water places in the US. Corrupt to the core, absolute sin what they c'nts done to that boy. Don't feel as Sorry for Steve but he has been shafted too.

Hopefully they officers have a few bullets out there with their name on them. Can see the daft Yanks kicking off about this.

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I'm about half way through now, it's quite incredible what the police and prosecutors have gotten away with!

How anyone can watch the videos of Brendan with his lawyers investigator and with the two cops and think that's legitimate is beyond me!

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One thing that was crazy to me (and seemed to be glossed over) was that Colburn guy phoning in the plate of the lassies car.

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One thing that was crazy to me (and seemed to be glossed over) was that Colburn guy phoning in the plate of the lassies car.

The significance wasn't well explained in the documentary, and I'm still trying to grasp it.

From what I can gather, Colburn called in the plate after she was reported as missing, and a few days before her car was found. I'm not sure how that was explained away by the prosecution, nor if the defence actually made a big deal out of it.

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Also, you own a junk yard with a massive crusher. You're going to put that car in there as soon as possible and make it impossible for anyone to ever find. Not just put a couple of branches over the top of it and hope nobody spots it.

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The significance wasn't well explained in the documentary, and I'm still trying to grasp it.

From what I can gather, Colburn called in the plate after she was reported as missing, and a few days before her car was found. I'm not sure how that was explained away by the prosecution, nor if the defence actually made a big deal out of it.

He radioed in asking for an id of the license plate - he gets told the name of the lassie and that she's missing and then he says the make of the car as well. The implication being he is looking at the car at the time - otherwise why mention the make? He looked like he'd just shat himself when it got pointed out. No idea if it got followed up any more separate to what we saw.

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I let out a massive "No, f**k you!" when I saw it was Coburn taking Brendan to and from court on the night of the verdict. A travesty that he was even charged, let alone convicted.

Edited by Adam

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**POTENTIAL SPOILERS!!**

Takes too long to add them on this phone.

If this case has shown us anything, it's that the American judicial system is unquestionably about proving someone's innocence as opposed to proving their guilt. Surely these cases should be all about the prosecution trying to convince a jury that a man is guilty and the defence then trying to dispel their accusations. Instead, what we saw was the defence instantly taking the case forward and it was the prosecution who were batting away the defences claims. I may be ignorant but that's not the way the system should work. From the off, jurors should need convincing that a man is guilty and the prosecution should demonstrate why. In this case it was blatantly obvious that from the off they needed convincing he was innocent!

Edited by 19QOS19

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Just finished it.

The behaviour of Len Kachinsky and his investigator beggars belief. Jaw dropping. And the fact the latter had the cheek to cry over the picture of the bow in front of Teresa Halbach's church had me raging.

Pair of total c***s!

Edited by Pepper

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Just finished it. Fantastic series. There were times when I thought it was maybe dragging on a wee bit then you suddenly get hit with another WTF moment. Some of the craziest things for me were:

- the police saying if they wanted rid of him it would have been easier to kill him

- the blood sample with the needle hole in it

- the lack of blood at the supposed crime scene

- the way they dealt with Brendan

- the woman who found the Rav 4 claiming god had guided her to it

The defence lawyers were superb, it was fascinating watching them at work. Compare them to Colburn and Lenk, pair of c***s.

I don't think the her brother had anything to do with it but he came across as a bit of a strange one - talking about the grieving process before they had found a body.

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Just about to switch it on, could be a bad idea going by the reviews on here if I want up at a decent time tomorrow....

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There was some evidence that the show didn't cover:

Edited because someone on reddit covered it more thoroughly:

Circumstantial Evidence

  • Theresa visits Steven, who has specifically requested her and makes an appointment using a false name. He is the last known person to see her alive. He calls her three times that day—twice with *67, but the last time without it.

  • Experts say Theresa was shot with a .22, just like the one in Steven Avery’s room, hanging above his bed with the name "Steve" in masking tape on the muzzle loader. This gun is taken into evidence on the first day of the search and was found to be the gun that fired the bullet embedded in the garage floor.

  • Steve has a bonfire the night of the murder. Theresa’s burnt bones are found throughout his yard.

  • According to Brendan’s mom, Brendan came home the night of the murder with bleach on his jeans and told her he was helping Steven clean the garage. His jeans with bleach on them are submitted as evidence.

DNA:

  • Steve’s and Theresa’s blood is found in Theresa’s car, and Steve has a cut on his finger.

  • Steve’s sweat is found on the hood latch of the car.

  • Theresa’s DNA is found on a bullet in the garage.

  • Steve's DNA is on the RAV4 key found in his bedroom

Character:

  • Characterized as manipulative by his family and prone to outbursts of anger. Almost no one in his family believes he’s innocent.

  • Theresa supposedly finds him creepy and requests not to go over there anymore after he answers his door in only a towel.

1985 and before:

  • Robbed a bar.

  • Doused a cat in gasoline and threw it in the fire, killing it.

  • Ran a female relative off the road and pointed a gun at her head. 6 of his 18 years in prison are spent for this crime.

In prison:

  • Wrote disturbing letters to ex-wife and kids about killing his ex-wife.

  • Supposedly told inmates about plans for a torture chamber and how burning a body is best for getting rid of DNA.

2003 and after:

  • In early 2006, Steven Avery’s relative accuses him of sexually assaulting her in 2004 when she was 16 (it was investigated in 2004, but she did not admit to it then because he threatened to kill her family if she did). If Avery wasn’t convicted of murder, he was going to be charged for this.

Police tampering:

  • Manitowoc police are involved in some of the crime scene investigation, but there is no direct evidence of any tampering, only speculation.

  • The hole in the blood vial is perfectly normal (as pointed out several times here, never in the documentary). While the ripped tape is weird, the FBI’s EDTA test showed EDTA in the vial but not in the car stains, leading there to be no legitimate reason to believe blood was planted in the car. The DNA found on the RAV4 hood latch is not from blood, but sweat. Even if LE obtained blood from the vial, it is not clear where they would get Steven Avery's sweat.

The prosecution lawyer also added this:

1. Avery’s past incident with a cat was not “goofing around”. He soaked his cat in gasoline or oil, and put it on a fire to watch it suffer.

2. Avery targeted Teresa. On Oct 31 (8:12 am) he called AutoTrader magazine and asked them to send “that same girl who was here last time.” On Oct 10, Teresa had been to the Avery property when Steve answered the door just wearing a towel. She said she would not go back because she was scared of him (obviously). Avery used a fake name and fake # (his sister’s) giving those to the AutoTrader receptionist, to trick Teresa into coming.

3. Teresa’s phone, camera and PDA were found 20 ft from Avery’s door, burned in his barrel. Why did the documentary not tell the viewers the contents of her purse were in his burn barrel, just north of the front door of his trailer?

4. While in prison, Avery told another inmate of his intent to build a “torture chamber” so he could rape, torture and kill young women when he was released. He even drew a diagram. Another inmate was told by Avery that the way to get rid of a body is to “burn it”…heat destroys DNA.

5. The victim’s bones in the firepit were “intertwined” with the steel belts, left over from the car tires Avery threw on the fire to burn, as described by Dassey. That WAS where her bones were burned! Suggesting that some human bones found elsewhere (never identified as Teresa’s) were from this murder was NEVER established.

6. Also found in the fire pit was Teresa’s tooth (ID’d through dental records), a rivet from the “Daisy Fuentes” jeans she was wearing that day, and the tools used by Avery to chop up her bones during the fire.

7. Phone records show 3 calls from Avery to Teresa’s cell phone on Oct 31. One at 2:24, and one at 2:35–both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn’t know it him…both placed before she arrives. Then one last call at 4:35 pm, without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up (his original defense), so tries to establish the alibi call after she’s already been there, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn’t need the *67 feature for that last call.

8. Avery’s DNA (not blood) was on the victim’s hood latch (under her hood in her hidden SUV). The SUV was at the crime lab since 11/5…how did his DNA get under the hood if Avery never touched her car? Do the cops have a vial of Avery’s sweat to “plant” under the hood?

9. Ballistics said the bullet found in the garage was fired by Avery’s rifle, which was in a police evidence locker since 11/6…if the cops planted the bullet, how did they get one fired from HIS gun? This rifle, hanging over Aver’s bed, is the source of the bullet found in the garage, with Teresa’s DNA on it. The bullet had to be fired BEFORE 11/5—did the cops borrow his gun, fire a bullet, recover the bullet before planting the SUV, then hang on to the bullet for 4 months in case they need to plant it 4 months later???

Edited by RCR

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The majority of that stuff has been explained elsewhere, or is misleading, or plain wrong.

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