Tricky6 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Found the brother odd also....talking about the grieving process before she was even found. Strange in her video she also says she loves her parents and her sister...no mention of the brother! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I loved this show. I think the neutrality of the show wasn't very balanced, but I guess that is the whole point of the show, to show Steven Avery in the manner that wasn't shown to the court. From what we saw in the documentary I find it incredulous that Brendan was convicted of the charges against him. No actual DNA evidence and the confession was certainly cohersed from him. You can understand the conviction of Steven Avery. The blood in his car is very damning. The FBI quickly developing a test for the presence of the substance used to preserve the blood samples, and their findings that it wasn't present, certainly helped the prosecution's case. The defence did a very good job of building the conspiracy and it does look like evidence was certainly planted. Why didn't they go to a University hospital or private lab to get them to produce their own results? I really enjoyed the show and thought it was well made and thought provoking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 http://putlocker.is/watch-paradise-lost-the-child-murders-at-robin-hood-hills-online-free-putlocker.html http://putlocker.is/watch-paradise-lost-2-revelations-online-free-putlocker.html http://putlocker.is/watch-paradise-lost-3-purgatory-online-free-putlocker.html That's the three of them there. Each one is over two hours long so all in all it's about the same length of time as making a murderer. The staircase i can't remember where i saw it. I think i torrented it but it took me forever to actually find it. The link to episode 1,2 and 3 are below but im sure there's about 10 all in. http://www.watchfree.to/tv-2999d9-The-Staircase-tv-show-online-free-putlocker.html/season-1-episode-1#close-modal https://vimeo.com/122319175 https://vimeo.com/122319174 Cheers. Watched West Memphis on Netflix instead. Unbelievable how they can't do anything to you know who now!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffy_ Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Heard good things about this for a few people so I'm going to stick on a couple of episodes tonight. Got high hopes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeboy Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 You can never win an argument with a lawyer. That's why I come on here and pick fights, you pair of arseholes. You're getting mixed up, you can never win an argument with a woman. Her being a lawyer is just double jeopardy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieT1314 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Just finished this. Loved it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJM77 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 4 episodes in so far and I'm loving it Can't help but feel Teresa's brother could be guilty, what really caught my attention was when he started talking about a greiving process being underway before she was confirmed dead, find it very hard to believe Brendan or Steve did it tbh, although there could certainly be further characters introduced later on with a big part to play in it all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Just finished watching the full thing. Actually pretty depressing to be honest. They don't have a hope in hell of overturning the convictions now they've been stiffed by the 'suco' (cringe) Glad katz got his comeuppance the p***k. Scenes in my living room when he got punted. Couldn't stand his smirking when they were revealing the boy's confession and pretty much throughout. My blood was boiling when they had the gall to be so offended to reporters at the accusations of corruption after what had happened previously. The fact that they all refused to concede that Avery was innocent of the rape, that cretin with the framed drawing/mug shot, Lenk and Colburn being involved at all, never mind finding the key bits of evidence after they had already passed the case over due to a conflict of interest, all had me utterly seething. But the absolute pinnacle of disgust was for the boy's state appointed attorney and his scumbag investigator. They should be in jail. Absolutely corrupt to the core. Supposed to be supporting a young boy with learning difficulties and they're stringing him up for the benefit of the prosecution. I don't know how they can sleep at night, I really don't. The video of him trying to tell the truth and being dismissed and manipulated into making a further statement was fucking harrowing. And then the cheek of him greeting in court at the guilt trips that he himself had laid out to get the boy to say what he wanted! Horrific. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Also, in terms of a similar vein, have watched West of memphis, the central park 5 and shenandoah I would recommend them all. I've never seen paradise lost, would it be worth watching even if I've already seen wom? Also, for anyone who hasn't listened, the first series of serial is absolutely tremendous listening, probably the case I've been most interested in of them all 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Finished the lot in a 3 night binge. First and foremost, above everything else, chief prosecutor Kratz has the most punchable voice in history. Second, the documentary leaned to one side, there is stuff missing that we didn't see. Though from what I've seen, not much of it is particularly incriminating against Steven. Episode 4 (I think) was most horrifying. Abusing a dim 16-year-old with interrogation techniques designed to illicit whatever story it is you want painted. For the purpose of securing a conviction, nothing to do with getting the truth. Carefully picked out and engineered collateral damage to get to Steven. O'Kelly's session with him was fucking warped beyond belief. Brendan's conviction and ongoing imprisonment is disturbing. Steven I believe is probably also innocent. The lack of blood and DNA in his properties makes absolutely no sense given that's where he supposedly killed her. It seems most likely that she was killed elsewhere, transported in the back of her own jeep to the gravel pit, where she was burned, and then somehow ended up in Steven's fire. Brother-in-law Scott and the nephew seems the most likely, and they could have planted the key (after scrubbing it of their own and Theresa's DNA). I'm also partially open to it being Steven who did all that, though bemused as to why he'd bury her remains outside his own home. I'm not buying the Halbech brother angle for a minute, no way he was involved. The ex-boyfriend and the missing calls is either tech gremlins or he was the one harassing her and he panicked and deleted some messages that might sound incriminating. The police I think had nothing to do with the murder, but were only too eager to pin it on Steven and roll completely in that direction, and simply clusterfucked the f**k out of the investigation. Edited January 5, 2016 by banana 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunty Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I'm not buying the Halbech brother angle for a minute, no way he was involved. The ex-boyfriend and the missing calls is either tech gremlins or he was the one harassing her and he panicked and deleted some messages that might sound incriminating. Yeh I agree with this. A lot of people don't get the irony in saying Avery/Dassey are not guilty because there wasn't enough evidence, then suggest it's her brother based on him sounding a bit dodgy in an interview. I read that the defence lawyers never suspected the brother or ex-boyfriend either. They had a list of their own suspects but were not allowed to introduce it in the case. The list was compiled entirely of Steven Avery relatives - including his two brothers, the two Dassey brothers (including Brendan), Scott Tadych, and I think maybe one more but can't remember who. That's probably a more plausible theory. I think Brendan Dassey, though horribly stitched up, May have been involved though. He apparently offered up the information that the battery had been removed from the car before persecutors had known about it. Also the thing with his cousin was odd - her crying in court saying she made it all up smacked of her realising he was away to be jailed for life and suddenly wanting to help him (though obviously I'm guessing on that since she appeared for less than five minutes in the entire 10 episodes so hard to say if she did make it up or not). They both deserve a retrial anyway. If I was on the jury I'd have probably said not guilty on account there was more than enough reasonable doubt, but I can't say I'm convinced either are entirely innocent either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) I think Brendan Dassey, though horribly stitched up, May have been involved though. He apparently offered up the information that the battery had been removed from the car before persecutors had known about it. I've seen that and it's actually not true, he was led to this as he was with the rest of his confession. FASSBENDER: OK, what else did he do, he did somethin' else, you need to tell us what he did, after the car is parked there. It's extremely important. (pause) Before you guys leave that car. BRENDAN: That he left the gun in the car. FASSBENDER: That's not what I'm thinkin' about. He did something to that car. He took the plates and he, I believe he did something else in that car. (pause). BRENDAN: I don't know. FASSBENDER:OK. Did he, did he, did he go and look at the engine, did he raise the hood at all or anything like that? To do something to that car? BRENDAN: Yeah. FASSBENDER: What was that? (pause) WEIGERT: What did he do, Brendan? WEIGERT: It's OK, what did he do? FASSBENDER: What did he do under the hood, if what's what he did? (pause) BRENDAN: I don't know what he did, but I know he went under. FASSBENDER: He did raise the hood? (Brendan nods "yes") You remember that? BRENDAN: Yeah. Not sure what to make of the 14/15 year old cousin. She could easily have been pressured to change her story, or she might just be a wee gossip. There's some fucked up stuff about Steven's jury too. The guy who was sent home because of an emergency, granted by the judge in exceptional circumstances - the emergency was that his daughter was in a not severe car crash, and was pretty much unharmed. He mentioned that 3 of the jurors at the start staunchly thought Steven was guilty - one of these three was the father of a local deputy sheriff. This shit was stacked. One overarching issue is that Steven was tried and convicted on killing her in the garage, the false imprisonment and rape charges were dropped as the state provided no evidence. However, in Brendan's case his confession was that the tying up to the bed, rape and stabbing was deemed what happened. Both certainly deserve a retrial, on the other side of the state if possible. Edited January 5, 2016 by banana 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19QOS19 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Slap it all in a spoiler tag just to be safe. Though I enjoyed watching this, by the end I was absolutely gutted. When they gave the guilty verdict to Avery I got that sinking feeling in my stomach. It was as if he was one of my own. I genuinely expected a not guilty verdict as the defence had shot everything down IMO. I thought you were only allowed to go for a guilty verdict if it was proven by the prosecution that the accused committed the crime beyond reasonable doubt? If they genuinely thought the prosecution did that then by f**k it must have been a dim jury. The sad thing was that the guy said 7 were in the not guilty camp once they started. How the f**k could they have had their minds changed to vote guilty?! Every bit of 'concrete evidence' they had was very very dubious to say the least and the defence proved that. The vile of blood with the puncture hole?! At that point I wouldn't have been listening to a word the prosecution had to say! To me it was blatantly obvious this was a set up. Who did it? That's the question really. My own guess would be the ex-boyfriend. He was a bit too full on to find her without showing any emotion. Either you would stay well clear or you'd be torn up about the news? He did/was neither. And if you look over his interview his body language is very bizarre. Every time he is asked a question where he needs to use his memory he looks down to the side to recall. When he's asked a question about the victim he keeps his eyes straight ahead. Very strange behaviour. I've never shouted at a programme as much as I did when they were interviewing Brendan and getting him to say what they wanted to hear. The boy clearly has learning difficulties and the fact the state never protected this boy both disgusted and infuriated me. Fucking disgusting. I hope Fassbender and the other dickhead get hit by a freight train. Utter c***s. I don't know the laws (like they matter!) over in America but to me the jury shouldn't have been picked from within that county. In a town with a population of around 34,000 the majority of people would have known Avery and would have had him as guilty before even entering the court (just as 3 members apparently did). I really hope the guy gets a retrial and some of the folk prosecuting I hope receive news of a terminal illness. Some truly disgusting stuff was on show throughout the documentary. And if I ever saw that little weasel who was supposed to be Brendan's counsel (the wee ginger headed p***k who constantly had a grin on his face even when it was bad news) out and about (unlikely of course) I wouldn't think twice about knocking his teeth out. Justice and liberty for all? An utter joke of a country IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunty Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I've seen that and it's actually not true, he was led to this as he was with the rest of his confession. Fair enough. That's the danger with this, a lot of stuff being said in websites etc that aren't true. One being put about was that Avery had abused Dassey when he was a small child. Impossible surely since Avery was in jail and the first time they met Dassey would have been 14/15. There's some fucked up stuff about Steven's jury too. The guy who was sent home because of an emergency, granted by the judge in exceptional circumstances - the emergency was that his daughter was in a not severe car crash, and was pretty much unharmed. He mentioned that 3 of the jurors at the start staunchly thought Steven was guilty - one of these three was the father of a local deputy sheriff. This shit was stacked. . Yeh saw a quote supposedly from the juror who was dismissed. He said he spoke to another of the jurors and asked why they found him guilty, and they said "think of all the things he did when he was younger." Seemed to be Avery wasn't very well liked in the town. That may be the case, the documentary probably made him come across as a nice guy when in truth you look at his life and he wasn't an angel by any means. But, doesn't mean he committed the murder. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Fair enough. That's the danger with this, a lot of stuff being said in websites etc that aren't true. One being put about was that Avery had abused Dassey when he was a small child. Impossible surely since Avery was in jail and the first time they met Dassey would have been 14/15. Yeh saw a quote supposedly from the juror who was dismissed. He said he spoke to another of the jurors and asked why they found him guilty, and they said "think of all the things he did when he was younger." Seemed to be Avery wasn't very well liked in the town. That may be the case, the documentary probably made him come across as a nice guy when in truth you look at his life and he wasn't an angel by any means. But, doesn't mean he committed the murder. Document/materials list from both cases here. And a timeline here (no idea how accurate or complete that is). Have seen elsewhere that they were indeed not very well liked locally, and got into a fair bit of trouble. Shouldn't be using that as a starting point, though. Isn't that the whole reason for not disclosing/hiding the previous criminal history of the accused? (not sure if that is applicable in the US or at state level) Edited January 5, 2016 by banana 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diegomarahenry Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 A part of the defense case was that no one else was investigated, a key part for me was his in-laws testimony, all including Brendan apparently lied while testifying against him. Either because of something Steve did to them (Barb says in an interview she hopes he rots because of what he did to her kids) or because they had killed her 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Taranbino Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 By the way, what's he all about chucking a live cat on a fire? He was an adult at the time as well - that is crazy behaviour 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19QOS19 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 By the way, what's he all about chucking a live cat on a fire? He was an adult at the time as well - that is crazy behaviour Aye that was poor form tbh. Killing animals as a youth does tend to lead to killers later on in life apparently... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 The film makes have been contacted by a member of the jury who gave told them they only voted Guilty because they were afraid for their safety if they didn't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostin' Kev Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Also, in terms of a similar vein, have watched West of memphis, the central park 5 and shenandoah I would recommend them all. I've never seen paradise lost, would it be worth watching even if I've already seen wom? Also, for anyone who hasn't listened, the first series of serial is absolutely tremendous listening, probably the case I've been most interested in of them all Central Park 5 was good, sure it dragged a bit towards the end though. Going to start watching this tomorrow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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