Making a Murderer

[jester]

Watched this over a couple of days and it had me so angry by the end of it. Having known nothing about the case I watched it and about five episodes in I had to ask my wife "This is real, right?" I genuinely questioned whether this was a skilfully done mockumentary, so great were the miscarriages piled one on top of another. As someone has said before, if it were a work of fiction you would dismiss it as too far fetched.

I am unconvinced of Steven Avery's guilt. I'm not sure whether he is innocent, but were I sitting on that jury, having seen the evidence put forward and the defence's breakdown of the manner in which it was gathered and processed, would leave me with more than reasonable doubt to his guilt. That being the case he should not be found guilty.

Ken Kratz defence of the Manitowoc law enforcement officers was sickening. Anyone who puts forward the lie that law enforcement officers are untainted pillars of society and that they never lie is guilty of a gross misrepresentation of the facts, and there are countless documented cases which prove that.

A few of my own observations:

The bed to which Theresa Halbach was allegedly tied showed no signs of wear or other damage which you would expect had someone been chained to it.

Kratz appeared to be putting forward two theories simultaneously: that Theresa Halbach was killed in the trailer and that she was killed in the garage.

The statements made by Brendan Dassey (with prompting) indicated that she was killed in the trailer, firstly raped, then stabbed, her throat slit, then strangled and finally shot. Were this the case, Steve Avery then managed to utterly sanitise the crime scene of every trace of blood, of which there would have been a lot, as well as all trace of hair, fibre and DNA. The trailer looked as though it had barely ever been cleaned, let alone sanitised.

Possible crime scene No2, the garage is similarly suspicious, the same lack of any blood spatter evidence anywhere in that hotch-potch of junk would suggest that the crime as described did not occur there, unless set up in a "Dexter Morgan" style sealed bubble.

This leaves other theories, that she was killed elsewhere in an unknown location, before being stored/transported in her own vehicle, and burned in one or more locations.

The idea that Steve Avery completely sanitised her vehicle of all traces of DNA, except for three blood traces is a strange one. That one blood smear would be located next to the ignition, the missing key from which was found suspiciously in an area previously searched would appear to be a convenient link.

So who did it?

Steve Avery may well have done it, but not in the manner or locations which the prosecution alleged. It's entirely possible that another/others did this, burned the body at the quarry pit and placed the burned remains in Avery's burn pit.

I was concerned that the police seemed very quick to dismiss the nephew and the brother-in-law, who were in the vicinity (the nephew being the second last recorded person to see her alive) and who alibied each other, although timings on those alibis were strangely off. The nephew, being a hunter would possibly had access to a gun and knives. I believe it is also not uncommon for hunters to have an area where they will butcher anything they kill, and this would be an area I would wish to locate and examine, if only to rule it out.

I think that she was killed in another location, before being butchered and burned, by person/persons unknown (and I include Steve Avery in that bracket).

Independently of this I believe that individuals within the Manitowoc police, the ubiquitous Lenk and Colborn, conspired to ensure that having gained his freedom though DNA before, he would be condemned by it this time.

Unless there is some great breakthough or a confession from someone, we are unlikely to know the truth about who killed Theresa Halbach. We did see the truth about the American justice system though. Horrendous, simply horrendous.

[Homer Thompson]

Watched this over a couple of days and it had me so angry by the end of it. Having known nothing about the case I watched it and about five episodes in I had to ask my wife "This is real, right?" I genuinely questioned whether this was a skilfully done mockumentary, so great were the miscarriages piled one on top of another. As someone has said before, if it were a work of fiction you would dismiss it as too far fetched.

I am unconvinced of Steven Avery's guilt. I'm not sure whether he is innocent, but were I sitting on that jury, having seen the evidence put forward and the defence's breakdown of the manner in which it was gathered and processed, would leave me with more than reasonable doubt to his guilt. That being the case he should not be found guilty.

Ken Kratz defence of the Manitowoc law enforcement officers was sickening. Anyone who puts forward the lie that law enforcement officers are untainted pillars of society and that they never lie is guilty of a gross misrepresentation of the facts, and there are countless documented cases which prove that.

A few of my own observations:

The bed to which Theresa Halbach was allegedly tied showed no signs of wear or other damage which you would expect had someone been chained to it.

Kratz appeared to be putting forward two theories simultaneously: that Theresa Halbach was killed in the trailer and that she was killed in the garage.

The statements made by Brendan Dassey (with prompting) indicated that she was killed in the trailer, firstly raped, then stabbed, her throat slit, then strangled and finally shot. Were this the case, Steve Avery then managed to utterly sanitise the crime scene of every trace of blood, of which there would have been a lot, as well as all trace of hair, fibre and DNA. The trailer looked as though it had barely ever been cleaned, let alone sanitised.

Possible crime scene No2, the garage is similarly suspicious, the same lack of any blood spatter evidence anywhere in that hotch-potch of junk would suggest that the crime as described did not occur there, unless set up in a "Dexter Morgan" style sealed bubble.

This leaves other theories, that she was killed elsewhere in an unknown location, before being stored/transported in her own vehicle, and burned in one or more locations.

The idea that Steve Avery completely sanitised her vehicle of all traces of DNA, except for three blood traces is a strange one. That one blood smear would be located next to the ignition, the missing key from which was found suspiciously in an area previously searched would appear to be a convenient link.

So who did it?

Steve Avery may well have done it, but not in the manner or locations which the prosecution alleged. It's entirely possible that another/others did this, burned the body at the quarry pit and placed the burned remains in Avery's burn pit.

I was concerned that the police seemed very quick to dismiss the nephew and the brother-in-law, who were in the vicinity (the nephew being the second last recorded person to see her alive) and who alibied each other, although timings on those alibis were strangely off. The nephew, being a hunter would possibly had access to a gun and knives. I believe it is also not uncommon for hunters to have an area where they will butcher anything they kill, and this would be an area I would wish to locate and examine, if only to rule it out.

I think that she was killed in another location, before being butchered and burned, by person/persons unknown (and I include Steve Avery in that bracket).

Independently of this I believe that individuals within the Manitowoc police, the ubiquitous Lenk and Colborn, conspired to ensure that having gained his freedom though DNA before, he would be condemned by it this time.

Unless there is some great breakthough or a confession from someone, we are unlikely to know the truth about who killed Theresa Halbach. We did see the truth about the American justice system though. Horrendous, simply horrendous.

Thats an interesting point, I never thought of before. The prosecution claim Avery cleaned his bedroom and garage - if I remember correctly, the claim she was stabbed/strangled in the bedroom and shot in the garage - to such a high standard that they found nothing, yet he didnt bother to do the same to the car. The other point about the car, that was mentioned but quickly dismissed, was that if she was killed in the garage, there was no need to put her in the car to transport her to the fire pit - its right outside his house

[Fife Saint]

Wasn't there also bone fragments at a fire in a quarry about a mile away too?

[Homer Thompson]

Wasn't there also bone fragments at a fire in a quarry about a mile away too?

Yes, but its not clear whether or not they were ever actually confirmed as being Theresas. Theres also evidence, apparently, that the bones found in the Avery fire pit were intertwined with the steel from the tyres in the pit, suggesting that they had been burned there, rather than elsewhere and then moved.

[Bert Raccoon]

In regards to DNA, was it not stated that Avery's DNA was found in the garage but not Hallbach's meaning he somehow managed to clean the scene purely of her DNA. Utter madness.

[Homer Thompson]

In regards to DNA, was it not stated that Avery's DNA was found in the garage but not Hallbach's meaning he somehow managed to clean the scene purely of her DNA. Utter madness.

That was said about the key found in his bedroom. I dont recall if it was said about the garage, may have been.

[Sinclair Street]

The latest theory doing the rounds is that the Avery property wasn't the last place Teresa Halbach visited. This is confirmed by a call between two detectives the day after she was reported missing. Although her diary clearly says the Avery's was her last stop it's now believed that it was George Zipperer's house. This is the guy who was very abusive when questioned by detectives and insisted they arrested Teresa Halbach for trespassing. He's also just demolished and rebuilt his garage.

This guy was also a family friend of Eugene Kusche, the slime ball Sheriff who did the sketch of Avery at the 1985 rape. Kusche was also friends with both Lenk and Colburn.

Kusche was reported to have died of a heart attack the day before Steven Avery's trial started, but a death certificate was never issued for this. It's believed he now lives in Florida under another name.

Interesting times ahead.

[jester]

Wasn't there also bone fragments at a fire in a quarry about a mile away too?

Steven Avery's lawyer expands on that in this interview

Edited February 12, 2016 by jester

[Quitongo's Left Peg]

Interview here that Kratz did with a former Daily Show comedian. Slimy c**t.

[GrahamJags]

Beast IMO

[Ludo*1]

I see Avery has got one of the best defence lawyers in the US representing him now in Kathleen Zellner. She's got countless people off after serving lengthy sentences.

[Compliment Sandwich]

I see Avery has got one of the best defence lawyers in the US representing him now in Kathleen Zellner. She's got countless people off after serving lengthy sentences.

Imagine the payout he'd get if he had a successful re-trial!

[diamond_for_life]

Imagine the payout he'd get if he had a successful re-trial!

Hee haw after he gets fitted up for genocide Edited February 24, 2016 by diamond_for_life

[sergie's no1 fan]

I see Avery has got one of the best defence lawyers in the US representing him now in Kathleen Zellner. She's got countless people off after serving lengthy sentences.

She's on Twitter @zellnerlaw

[paisleysaints]

Can the the american judicial system afford for him to be set free after all this time again lol given the worldwide coverage of it all.

Is this new lawyer getting involved with Dassey also.

Edited February 24, 2016 by paisleysaints

[54_and_counting]

if there is a retrial, they really need to fly in a jury from the outermost far flung place on earth, as every single person in america with know about avery and his past, there is no way a jury from america can enter that courtroom for a retrial without any sort of an opinion on the guy already

[Tommy Nooka]

Managed to get the last 2 episodes of this watched at the weekend but I still can't make my mind up about it.

Having already seen West of Memphis I'd say MaM is the by far the better documentary.

Something really didn't sit right with me whilst watching WoM and I found out afterwards it had been made by Damien Echolls himself and his supporters, at no point was I convinced of those lads innocence......at least not with anywhere near the degree of doubt over Steven Avery (who I believe could still be guilty).

Both documentaries chose to leave out particular evidence to suit their agenda which worked well in the context of keeping the debate/doubt alive however where they differ is in WoM scatter gun approach to naming other suspects, seems foolish to me especially in light of the fact these guys were 'allegedly' incorrectly convicted and jailed for 18 years due to suspicion. I still have serious doubts about their release, not to mention that Echolls bloke is a 100% wrong 'un!

As for Brendan Dassey, it looks highly doubtful whether the lad could have carried out what he's been convicted of. I just can't imagine someone who is clearly mentally handicapped getting the same treatment over here, he's just a simple kid who told the police what they wanted to hear just to get it over with.

Disgraceful that those interviews were accepted by law/decision makers as admissable never mind as the basis of a conviction (completely contrary to the modus operandi of his 'accomplices' conviction)

Edited February 29, 2016 by Tommy Nooka

[PrestersKTID]

if there is a retrial, they really need to fly in a jury from the outermost far flung place on earth, as every single person in america with know about avery and his past, there is no way a jury from america can enter that courtroom for a retrial without any sort of an opinion on the guy already

It could almost be a reversal of the original jury. Majority of local community saw that press conference that Kratz put out, basically passing a guilty verdict before the trial had begun.

Now a lot of people have seen the making a murderer series and have their thoughts that avery is innocent.

[Homer Thompson]

Season 2 confirmed

[1320Lichtie]

Season 2 confirmed

I don't know how much more detail they could really give? Wonder what it will be about now.

I listen to true crime podcasts all the time, I'd actually listened to one about this case before the show, and there's so many interesting cases that would make fantastic documentary series like this one. I hope the success of this leads to more true crime stuff, just look at how successful Serial Season 1 was.

It really is a great genre with so much potential.