SecretCEO Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Your first suggestion was for a 46 team SPFL! Fine then - stick with 12 at the top as it's easier than wholesale change for now. Focus on reforming the other divisions into a 14 team Championship and 18 team L1 to give the benefits already mentioned. Only requires an increase to 44 clubs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboke Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Uh huh but my way had only 10 big fishes to feed at the top. Feel ill at the idea of another division with a split even if arguments for it are good. 18, 10, 18 would give the same benefits but no splits and only 3 divisions. Playoffs everywhere to keep things interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretCEO Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 You've contradicted yourself on the number of clubs again... What you're missing, though, is that a split gives as competitive games as playoffs do - and enables a variety of sizes of league. For a top 18 you'd need to find a way to have Celtic v Rangers four times without a title decider where everyone goes crazy. I don't know if the top 4 after 34 games could then go on and play again at home and away, with a carefully curated fixtures list to avoid any trouble. With there being a 5th Euro place now, there might be scope for additional playoffs from 5th downwards. The middle division of 10 in your suggestion could be rollicking. Maybe 1st and 2nd to be promoted automatically, with 3rd playing off against 16th from the Premier. And 9th, 10th relegated automatically, with 1st and 2nd coming up automatically from L1, playoffs between 7th in Championship and 3rd-5th of L1. No worries about a stale fixtures list in that division! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboke Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Nah that top 4 idea sounds rubbish tbf. It's not like big teams will vote for less games against other big teams anyway. I gie up! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretCEO Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 They won't, that's true. Sorry I if offended you mate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St-ow! Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 (edited) 12-14-18 Top12 (Premier) Will never change, for reasons of finances and politics. Split isn't pretty but works quite well. Middle 14 (Championship) Teams play every other team x3, which clubs are amenable to as per this season. No negative impact on finances of clubs at this level, as 10+ full timers likely and 19-20 home games each (compared to 8+ full time clubs and 18 home games at the moment). Maybe allows full timers a couple of seasons to build towards promotion with less worry about relegation than at the moment. Gives more space for best part timers to bed in, make money and maybe progress. 1st promoted automatically, 2nd, 3rd, 4th in playoffs with 11th of Premier - same structure as now, but single leg matches due to longer league season: 4th away to 3rd, winners away to 2nd, winners vs 11th of Premier at neutral ground. 13th,14th relegated automatically. 12th in playoffs with 3rd-5th of Conference. Bottom 18 (Conference) Play every opponent x2, 34 games per team. National home for part timers - build towards promotion, stabilise after coming up from Highland/Lowland leagues. 17th, 18th relegated - to be replaced by winners of: HL1st vs LL 2nd, and LL 1st vs HL 2nd. By having top 2 of HL and of LL qualifying for playoffs it keeps those divisions interesting and gives relegated SPFL clubs a clearer route back to the big time. Edited February 20, 2021 by St-ow! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboke Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, St-ow! said: 12-14-18 Top12 (Premier) Will never change, for reasons of finances and politics. Split isn't pretty but works quite well. Middle 14 (Championship) Teams play every other team x3, which clubs are amenable to as per this season. No negative impact on finances of clubs at this level, as 10+ full timers likely and 19-20 home games each (compared to 8+ full time clubs and 18 home games at the moment). Maybe allows full timers a couple of seasons to build towards promotion with less worry about relegation than at the moment. Gives more space for best part timers to bed in, make money and maybe progress. 1st promoted automatically, 2nd, 3rd, 4th in playoffs with 11th of Premier - same structure as now, but single leg matches due to longer league season: 4th away to 3rd, winners away to 2nd, winners vs 11th of Premier at neutral ground. 13th,14th relegated automatically. 12th in playoffs with 3rd-5th of Conference. Bottom 18 (Conference) Play every opponent x2, 34 games per team. National home for part timers - build towards promotion, stabilise after coming up from Highland/Lowland leagues. 17th, 18th relegated - to be replaced by winners of: HL1st vs LL 2nd, and LL 1st vs HL 2nd. By having top 2 of HL and of LL qualifying for playoffs it keeps those divisions interesting and gives relegated SPFL clubs a clearer route back to the big time. Your Championship. 14 teams, no split. Tick. Include Falkirk, Patrick makes 10 full timers with big away support. Play everyone of them at home x1 and half of them at home again. Because playing all teams x3. So 15 home games with big away support. Championship at the mo - 8 full timers, playing x2 at home = 16 home games with big away support. Not much in it. Assuming you're promoting Kelty, Brora to increase spfl to 44. Not colts. ? Edited February 21, 2021 by theboke Include 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St-ow! Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) Yes - that's the basic idea, although you can't pick and choose teams so right now Partick wouldn't be in it. On average, I think that a middle 14 (with no split, 39 games each) would give about the same finances for full time clubs as the current Championship - but with more part timers involved, too. No to the colt firm. And I feel Kelty and Brora merit inclusion in the league. Edited February 21, 2021 by St-ow! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretCEO Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 But an 8/6 split all-but guarantees 20 home games against full timers for those in the top 8, which is better financially for those serious about promotion and about staying in the Premier when they are promoted than either your suggestion or the present Championship. The bottom 6, while being exciting in terms of 3 of those teams being involved in relegation issues, could be seen as a sort of intermediate step/mini league for part timers wishing to progress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St-ow! Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) As a fairly neutral armchair type that does appeal (sorry boke). I don't see any meaningless games in your 8/6, whereas when it was touted for the top division as a 6/8 split there seemed to be huge scope for meaningless games in a bottom 8 with 14 fixture rounds after the split. There may have to be a rejig of prize money, as it looks as if the Championship clubs would be benefitting from an additional one to two home games whereas Conference clubs would have one less than they do now. Edited February 21, 2021 by St-ow! Messy syntax. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy groundhopper Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 From the outside it seems the (bigger) story is the teams in spfl2 and their fear of relegation and spending years in the wilderness - maybe if the HL and LL champions come straight up, with two relegated down, then these clubs can see a rapid return ? Admittedly they'll vote to cover their own backsides, but maybe it's time to see Talbot,Pollok,Kelty,Brora and the like, take their places Inthe spfl. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretCEO Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, St-ow! said: As a fairly neutral armchair type that does appeal (sorry boke). I don't see any meaningless games in your 8/6, whereas when it was touted for the top division as a 6/8 split there seemed to be huge scope for meaningless games in a bottom 8 with 14 fixture rounds after the split. There may have to be a rejig of prize money, as it looks as if the Championship clubs would be benefitting from an additional one to two home games whereas Conference clubs would have one less than they do now. Certainly - we're talking about expansion to 44 clubs, so the distribution of prize money would need looked at anyway. I happen to think an 8/6 split at the second level would generate its own interest and so money would follow, therefore it wouldn't necessarily be a case of dividing up the same pie into thinner slices. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St-ow! Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 55 minutes ago, Andy groundhopper said: From the outside it seems the (bigger) story is the teams in spfl2 and their fear of relegation and spending years in the wilderness - maybe if the HL and LL champions come straight up, with two relegated down, then these clubs can see a rapid return ? Admittedly they'll vote to cover their own backsides, but maybe it's time to see Talbot,Pollok,Kelty,Brora and the like, take their places Inthe spfl. Yep - that's almost what I was aiming for in 12-14-18 suggestion earlier. If you relegate two from the bottom division automatically, it gives more possibilities the other way. I would prefer to have the winners of HL vs 2nd LL and winners of LL vs 2nd HL in playoffs for two promotion places to the SPFL, because it enables a fairer opportunity to clubs in the Lowland area - where most SPFL clubs will be relegated to, and where the balance of clubs lies - to be promoted. It also makes the LL and HL more interesting for longer in the event of runaway leaders. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboke Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Spfl2 clubs won't vote for more relegation unless Berwick or East Stirling come back up. To show it can be done. Shame as LL's more interesting than L2. Bigger spfl's the shortcut to more prom/rel. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldster Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Credit to SPFL clubs for agreeing to some relegation. That can't have been easy for them. Better parachute payments and more sponsorship for LL and HL might persuade them to open up more. And sort any boundary issues. 2nd LL v 3rd HL, vice versa, winners play 1st of either league for promotion would go further to improve competition at that level and give better chance of ex SPFL clubs of regaining status. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 It's pretty depressing that we seem to be talking about deciding a league structure based on squeezing a couple of extra home games against Queen of the South or Raith Rovers out of the system for the likes of Dundee or Caley Thistle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St-ow! Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Something more radical to propose? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldster Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 No! This thread is full of potty ideas. We don't need any more. Just look to preserve what clubs we have and bring through big non league ones - therefore expand the SPFL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St-ow! Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Hmm, yes, and anyone for regional conferences below the Championship? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 On 18/02/2021 at 17:56, theboke said: I gie up! That's what I'm hanging on to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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