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League reconstruction: Let's hear your view


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Two things about this. One is that you're giving a single example of a large journey from a lower league Junior team. Sometimes longer distances will occur for one off matches, but those are the exceptions. Let's look at the top levels of Junior football. In the West Region you might need to travel 60 miles or so if you're going from Kirkintilloch to Girvan . If a team like Stranraer were in there, for example, there would always be one longer journey down there. But all the clubs in that league have nearby fixtures, and seldom have to travel particularly far. It thrives on local rivalry, and that's what they love about it. It works because of that. Most journeys are within about 30 miles. There will be the odd longer one, and a few less than 10 miles. If you combined them with the East Region, it might not be too bad for Rob Roy in terms of distances, but most of the clubs would be looking at several journeys which would be close to 100 miles. That would greatly increase travelling over the course of a season. There are many players in those leagues who hate any long distances. They want to be playing the teams, 5, 10, 20 miles down the road, maybe a little bit longer on occasion. 

The second thing is that you're only looking at it from the perspective of Arbroath and the number of particularly long journeys. The examples for every club would be different and it's about the total number of long and short journeys. 

If Ayr were in a League with Stirling, Berwick, Stranraer, Annan, Stenhousemuir, Clyde, Queens Park, Airdrie and Albion Rovers, then their total mileage would be about 2300 miles. They would still have a couple of hefty trips, but only one over 100 miles. They average distance to a match would be 64 miles. 

If Ayr were in a league with  Arbroath, East Fife, Raith Rovers, Forfar, Elgin, Cowdenbeath, Edinburgh City, Peterhead, and Montrose, then their total mileage would be about 4800 miles. The average distance to a match would be 133 miles. 

You can argue that Ayr is closer to Edinburgh than Berwick, and so on. You would have some weird splits with teams not too far away from each other playing in different regions, but the point is about overall travel, not individual examples. 

If there were four regions, Ayr would be apart from Berwick and their only particularly long journey would go. That's what regions do, cut down overall journey times. Some regions would be bigger than others, it's the same in all countries. It at least balances out the occasional longer journey with plenty of local matches. 

Whether or not you think it's worth it is another matter. 

 

Arbroath barely ever have to travel far ffs. 4 times this year and 6 times last year. They are also exceptions.

 

There’s just not the spread of clubs that are around a similar size for regional football to properly work for senior teams.

 

The teams that are within a 30 mile radius of Arbroath for example are Forfar, Brechin, Montrose and then who? Junior clubs with players parents on the sidelines? How would that be any use for us, a club with an average of about 750 when playing at a national level? Or Montrose/Brechin/Forfar for that matter? Where would we go when one of us inevitably won the league? Where would we be promoted to?

 

We’d also be at a massive disadvantage to other regions, particularly the central belt teams. We currently have players in our team from as far as Stevenson to the south and Aberdeen to the north. We couldn’t attract any player from the central belt to us if he was having to come up here every single week. You’ll also find that even Berwicks/Stranraers/Peterhead’s/Annans/Elgin’s players will mainly be from the central belt. These teams train in Edinburgh, Glasgow and Perth. They would massively reduce in quality if these players had to make the long distances up to the region every single week. Central belt teams would have a massive advantage.

 

Ayr are full time there’s no chance they’d play regional football anyway.

 

The fact is the majority of part time clubs are within the 134 miles between Montrose and Dumbarton, a 2 hour journey, that’s hardly a long journey, I’m not sure what benefit you’d get out of altering the whole thing and harming clubs to such an extent to cut the majority of journey times down by such a short amount of time. Mental.

 

Regional football would really harm a lot of part time clubs that are currently playing at a national level. There isn’t enough clubs of a similar size close enough together in each proposed region for it to work properly.

 

It’s fine in the juniors and works well for junior clubs, the vast majority of clubs don’t have any sort of proper fanbase, especially up in this area of the country. 25 years old and yet to meet anybody who has said they support a junior team when I’ve asked them who they support. The players are local to their clubs. The parks they play on are basically public parks with changing rooms. If I was playing in those kinds of games and environments for a small amount of money I’d be pissed off travelling long distances too. Obviously there’s a few bigger clubs in there who are an exception but it’s the case overall. I’ve had friends who have played at every level of junior football in the east.

 

If junior football wasn’t regionalised it would be mental, that’s not the case with current senior clubs who are comfortable competing against other clubs of a similar size on a national level.

 

You talk about four regions and how playing in a region would cut down journey times, one of these regions basically already exists, the Highland League. Look at the distances these clubs have to travel. Id guess that you’d do less miles playing senior football for a lot of clubs on a national level.

 

The regionalised thing does my nut in. You’ll find it’s never fans of the part time clubs that want it, it’s always those looking in from above. I have no interest in watching Arbroath play regionalised football and neither does any other Arbroath supporter I know. We’re comfortable on a national level and playing regionalised games would be a total disaster for us. If I wanted to watch regional football with local players infront of 2 men and a dug I’d go and watch Arbroath Vics instead.

 

 

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ffs, most clubs Ayr play aren't far away, Dundee is just up the road not the other end of the planet.


Ayr are too big a club to play regionally anyway.

But even your long distance journeys are one offs or twice a season affairs. Not sure when the last time you played Peterhead or Elgin in a league game mind you but I’d imagine that a lot of your fans would actually view that as a positive and not a negative.

Annan away is by far our fans best away day and it’s the furthest.

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14 hours ago, EdTheDuck said:

A 14-team season splitting 7/7 requires 40 match days to be completed plus promotion/relegation playoffs.

Ed, 14 team league playing twice is 26 games then a 7 split playing twice is 12 games, so 38 game top flight same amount of games as there are now.

From the beginning of March to the end of November is 40 weeks.

That is correct

You still have to fit in League Cup & Scottish Cup including replays. Then there is European Qualifying and by your own reckoning group matches to squeeze in. That’s without considering the bloody awful international breaks and every couple of years a 6-8 week hiatus for World Cups and European Championships whether we qualify or not.

Well going forward with the hypothetical  summer football idea then.   At the moment the Scottish League is ranked 25th in Europe.  A '6-8 week hiatus for World Cup' so George Weah's cousins nephew doesn't have too miss any domestic games for St Mirren while he plays for Liberia in their World Cup debut, yeah Graeme Souness was in Outer Mongolia with no internet reception so the current Manager couldn't cross reference his C.V..  The show would go on, it would be like what Wimbledon does for Tennis every year, the stands would be packed.  The teams that have qualified for Europe would be in mid season and in top condition and have best chance of progression to the group stages. 

https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/index.html

Then there’s the super attractive mini league with giants like Brann Bergen, Randers and FC Honka. How many non-existent mid-weeks does it require?

That idea was off the top of my head following on from the news last week that Peter Lawwell saying the Europa league would be expanded.  Any multi nation club competition would gain interest if Europa league places were available.  See link above and access list 2018/19 gaining entry to the Champions league group stage is going to be harder than ever from next season.  Celtic's game against Anderlecht next month may be the last Champions league group stage game in Scotland for some time. 

Continuing on the summer football competition with the 4 European places already decided from the season before a spring qualifier competition straight knockout against the best of the rest from leagues ranked 15th to 30th 4 teams a nation 64 clubs 8 places up for grabs. 6 games tops guaranteed group stage place...then push on jump up to CL qualifying for the league runners up???  A thought, maybe it's in the post already.  

Splitting 8-6 and having the top 8 play one rounds of games isn’t going to happen. Celtic win the league by 2 points over Rangers thanks to 2 home wins to Rangers 1 home win = Fucking Carnage.

The League of Ireland has been running a 12 team 33 game top tier at present and season summer football for the last 15 years.  In that time Michael O'Neill's Shamrock Rovers and Dunfermline reject Stephen Kenny's Dundalk have both reached the Europa League group stages.  Shamrock Rovers play in a stadium smaller than Broadwood and have an average crowd of no more than 4,000.  Dundalk play on a 4G pitch and their Stadium would be on par with Auchinleck Talbot's. 

The 8-6 split wouldn't work as the top 8 playing once would total 33 games down from 38 so unless more European games /  league was found the big clubs wouldn't buy it.

That's the problem 2 games too little in a 16-18 team league for top clubs not enough quality teams, 12 teams 4 games against predictable outcome every year.  Answers on a post card, above was my best alternative, what would yours be?     

Your 3rd tier, though. What if a club from the top 8 has played the other 7 teams from their first half all at home? Do they have to play them all away in second half? And if not, what a rip. It’s bad enough trying to get everyone playing 19 H&A in a 6-6 split.

Well that was the main part of the proposal as I know the number of games against and sizes of leagues at the top has little room for manoeuvre.  The number of clubs playing at national level increases from 42 to 44 in the second half of the season.  Though with a more regionalised feel as going with your question.  Team plays in the 16 team lowland or highland first half of the season in  15 games home away 8/7 split that could be balanced out with the teams that play 7 home games have 2 home games instead of 1 in the 4 team 3 game league cup group stages at the start of the season.

You ask 'What if a club from the top 8 has played the other 7 teams from their first half all at home?'

They would play the reverse fixture in the second half of the season against any team from their top 8.  Straightforward yeah?

They would play 4 away and 4 home against the 8 from the other section in the second half of the season making a total of 30 games before playoffs.

The best part about this would be each team would then have played 2 games against 7 clubs twice and 1 game against 16 clubs in one league season 23 clubs in total over 30 games.  Compared to 9 in the SPFL at the moment.  You couldn't call that boring and only 4 away days against teams teams in the Highlands or Lowlands.  Would generate more local derbies, add novelty away days and could should increase support and interest.  The mid of the table is always the most competitive so leading up to the first half of the season split more games with something to play for from the start of the season.  

Any league consisting of part-time clubs does not auger well for splits in mid-winter. How do you ensure everyone has played their full complement if it pishes down for 4 weeks or freezes for a fortnight or both.

It isn't even the end of November and the Lowland league are as good as half way through their fixtures, the Highland league wouldn't be to far behind if they were playing in a 16 team league.

Also all the more reason for summer football to be introduced, increased British, European satellite T.V. money and the positive knock on effect to smaller clubs, I would think so. 

Apart from that I have a couple other niggling doubts not least of which is leave the HFL the f**k out of your mental schemes.

Whatever them other niggling doubts are go ahead I'm interested.  Teams like Cove, East Kilbride (especially, already have a u20's team playing in spfl development league), Spartans, possible Kelty 

 and Buckie too?  All want a go at the SPFL the tier 3 as above would clear it all up and again is my best proposal compared to what there is now to a fresh approach to enable progressive clubs, improve standards, competition and interest. 

A more middle of the road proposal and the more likely would be 3 leagues of 14, then the Highland and Lowland as 16 team leagues.  Increased access for Highland and Lowland league Champions and playoff for runners up.

Ed answers to your question in Italics.

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1 hour ago, Unknown Fan said:

A 14-team season splitting 7/7 requires 40 match days to be completed plus promotion/relegation playoffs.

Ed, 14 team league playing twice is 26 games then a 7 split playing twice is 12 games, so 38 game top flight same amount of games as there are now.

It would be 40 match days because 1 team in each split would have to sit out a match day. That's the problem with an odd number of teams.

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Why do folk bang on about regionalisation? Is it because they heard it on the radio once? Absolutely none of the teams and the fans of the teams in League 1 and 2 want it. There is no need for it.

Also what's the obsession with a split?

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39 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

It would be 40 match days because 1 team in each split would have to sit out a match day. That's the problem with an odd number of teams.

Well teams at the top play Cup games too any ones knocked out early could play each other in between. 1,  3 or 5 of any section of 7 in last 16 , quarters or semi finals of cup other teams can play then and the 38 match day overlap is covered.  That happens every year when the size of the leagues are 10 and 12. 

True a team to sit out Saturday could be worked round Thursday and Monday night games after split, fresher teams get a rest and a higher standard and more competitive as a result.

Or a 14 team 39 game season then?

Sound sensible?  Is this what Doncaster and his pals can't get their head round?

Edited by Unknown Fan
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13 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Why do folk bang on about regionalisation? Is it because they heard it on the radio once? Absolutely none of the teams and the fans of the teams in League 1 and 2 want it. There is no need for it.

Also what's the obsession with a split?

As I stated it isn't half the season is national league, increased attendances and nae playing the same 9 teams 4 times?  

No wonder some Highland league Champions haven't made the jump up.

Split well that the leagues are that small with 10 a split is to cater for the obsession to play each other 4 times.

What's the obsession with part time teams traveling the length of the country in the midst of winter to play in front of no more than a few 100 folk year after year against the same teams?


 
No. Club Average vs '16 Highest
1 Arbroath FC 727 11,6% 1.731
2 Elgin City FC 687 -6,7% 1.091
3 Forfar Athletic FC 654 -6,3% 1.564
4 Stirling Albion FC 637 3,4% 1.748
5 Montrose FC 606 7,1% 1.324
6 Clyde FC 526 -14,0% 738
7 Berwick Rangers FC 427 -7,5% 695
8 Edinburgh City FC 401 NEW 590
9 Annan Athletic FC 387 -13,6% 461
10 Cowdenbeath FC 345 -42,0% 571
. Total 540 -2,8% 1.748

 

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

Edited by Unknown Fan
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6 minutes ago, Unknown Fan said:

Well teams at the top play Cup games too any ones knocked out early could play each other in between. 1,  3 or 5 of any section of 7 in last 16 , quarters or semi finals of cup other teams can play then and the 38 match day overlap is covered.  That happens every year when the size of the leagues are 10 and 12. 

True a team to sit out Saturday could be worked round Thursday and Monday night games after split, fresher teams get a rest and a higher standard and more competitive as a result.

Or a 14 team 39 game season then?

Sound sensible?  Is this what Doncaster and his pals can't get there head round?

There's probably scenarios where compressing the 40 match days into the 38 could work by making teams knocked out of the Scottish Cup play League games on Cup weekends/mid weeks. By the time of the split you'd be at the Quarter Finals. You wouldn't know which 4 teams would make the Semi Finals when you announce the fixture lists. I'm not sure of the various permutations of that but it seems like a possible minefield.

That's if everything goes well. March can see some poor weather and that'd be after any split. Any one postponement could throw things off.

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1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

There's probably scenarios where compressing the 40 match days into the 38 could work by making teams knocked out of the Scottish Cup play League games on Cup weekends/mid weeks. By the time of the split you'd be at the Quarter Finals. You wouldn't know which 4 teams would make the Semi Finals when you announce the fixture lists. I'm not sure of the various permutations of that but it seems like a possible minefield.

That's if everything goes well. March can see some poor weather and that'd be after any split. Any one postponement could throw things off.

So that's the logic in the 4 games a season that helps the the bigger clubs get be gates and less chance of a closer competitive title race in a 16 or 18 team league.  It's like the Scottish fella from Dad's Army feel to it 'we're doomed' to any hint of change anyway.  Summer football again would solve that and Scottish Club European performances.  Surely now the likes of Hibs Hearts and Aberdeen would love to make the group stages of the Europa League especially the 2 Edinburgh clubs Stadiums the fans would love it.  Scottish Cup final on St Andrew's day, League completed anytime before Christmas  

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As I stated it isn't half the season is national league, increased attendances and nae playing the same 9 teams 4 times?  
No wonder some Highland league Champions haven't made the jump up.
Split well that the leagues are that small with 10 a split is to cater for the obsession to play each other 4 times.
What's the obsession with part time teams traveling the length of the country in the midst of winter to play in front of no more than a few 100 folk year after year against the same teams?
 

No. Club Average vs '16 Highest
1 Arbroath FC 727 11,6% 1.731
2 Elgin City FC 687 -6,7% 1.091
3 Forfar Athletic FC 654 -6,3% 1.564
4 Stirling Albion FC 637 3,4% 1.748
5 Montrose FC 606 7,1% 1.324
6 Clyde FC 526 -14,0% 738
7 Berwick Rangers FC 427 -7,5% 695
8 Edinburgh City FC 401 NEW 590
9 Annan Athletic FC 387 -13,6% 461
10 Cowdenbeath FC 345 -42,0% 571
. Total 540 -2,8% 1.748
 
http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm


Length of the country, seez fucking peace. The only time that happens is when Peterhead play a Berwick or an Elgin play an Annan. And like I’ve already said, most of these guys stay in the central belt anyway so it makes no difference.

And also, because we want to and because we can. The main factor. All these clubs in the lower leagues have supporters who have local junior teams who play local games by the way. Also these games are much cheaper, yet none of us are interested. Speaks volumes.
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12 minutes ago, Unknown Fan said:

So that's the logic in the 4 games a season that helps the the bigger clubs get be gates and less chance of a closer competitive title race in a 16 or 18 team league.  It's like the Scottish fella from Dad's Army feel to it 'we're doomed' to any hint of change anyway.  Summer football again would solve that and Scottish Club European performances.  Surely now the likes of Hibs Hearts and Aberdeen would love to make the group stages of the Europa League especially the 2 Edinburgh clubs Stadiums the fans would love it.  Scottish Cup final on St Andrew's day, League completed anytime before Christmas  

Give me a 16 or 18 team top flight and i'd be quite happy! Not a fan of going back down to 10 or any of the convoluted ideas to make a 14 work. I'll take what we have over that any day. If all we're doing is pie in the sky thinking, i'm pretty sure i've said this in the past:

Tier 1. SPFL Premiership (12)

Tier 2. SPFL Championship (20)

Tier 3. SPFL Highland (16) + SPFL Lowland (16) with no fixed boundary.

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20 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 


Length of the country, seez fucking peace. The only time that happens is when Peterhead play a Berwick or an Elgin play an Annan. And like I’ve already said, most of these guys stay in the central belt anyway so it makes no difference.

And also, because we want to and because we can. The main factor. All these clubs in the lower leagues have supporters who have local junior teams who play local games by the way. Also these games are much cheaper, yet none of us are interested. Speaks volumes.

 

Well all 4 them are playing the the same league this year so that is 16 games where the clubs are travelling a fair distance at that level of support it hardly can be sustainable.  Can add Stranraer though they are the league above this season.  If the leagues were bigger there would be less travel and freshness to it.  Stranraer Berwick and Annan don't have Junior teams anywhere near them.

Ladbrokes League One

No. Club Average vs '16 Highest
1 Airdieonians FC 830 -3,6% 1.633
2 Livingston FC 797 -54,8% 1.099
3 Queen's Park FC 645 24,4% 957
4 East Fife FC 626 0,2% 918
5 Alloa Athletic FC 531 -52,6% 712
6 Peterhead FC 505 -20,7% 681
7 Albion Rovers FC 450 -19,0% 1.199
8 Brechin City FC 429 -20,7% 553
9 Stenhousemuir FC 429 -24,3% 604
10 Stranrear FC 409 -19,2% 523
. Total 565 -42,1% 1.633

 

One thing at that level is that any of them teams play away over xmas is a great bet to lay the away team.

Edited by Unknown Fan
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15 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 


Length of the country, seez fucking peace. The only time that happens is when Peterhead play a Berwick or an Elgin play an Annan. And like I’ve already said, most of these guys stay in the central belt anyway so it makes no difference.

Willie Gibson +1 got into the papers earlier this season for one of the extreme versions of this. Both based in Dumfries(?) but both play for Peterhead. Didn't mind it too much because half the season was basically in the Central Belt and only have to train twice a week. One of the training sessions happening somewhere in Angus as well i believe because it was more convenient for everyone in the squad.

 

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Willie Gibson +1 got into the papers earlier this season for one of the extreme versions of this. Both based in Dumfries(?) but both play for Peterhead. Didn't mind it too much because half the season was basically in the Central Belt and only have to train twice a week. One of the training sessions happening somewhere in Angus as well i believe because it was more convenient for everyone in the squad.
 


Peterhead train in Forfar one night.
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12 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Give me a 16 or 18 team top flight and i'd be quite happy! Not a fan of going back down to 10 or any of the convoluted ideas to make a 14 work. I'll take what we have over that any day. If all we're doing is pie in the sky thinking, i'm pretty sure i've said this in the past:

Tier 1. SPFL Premiership (12)

Tier 2. SPFL Championship (20)

Tier 3. SPFL Highland (16) + SPFL Lowland (16) with no fixed boundary.

Aye so League 2 dissolves into the regional, though again that will never happen turkeys for... and all that and all that.  

Be great to push for a 16 split 37 game league, something new in the top tier at least.

As said League of Ireland for a pro semi pro summer league teams have got to Europa league stages twice in the last 6 years.

12 team 33 game season.  Plays through world cups and euros a lot of Friday night games.

When the European games come along league works with the clubs giving them weekends in between 1st and 2nd legs off.

Well it's the summer so easier to catch up on games.

All league games finish by Halloween, Cup final the week after.  Starts up again in March.

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Well all 4 them are playing the the same league this year so that is 16 games where the clubs are travelling a fair distance at that level of support it hardly can be sustainable.  Can add Stranraer though they are the league above this season.  If the leagues were bigger there would be less travel and freshness to it.  Stranraer Berwick and Annan don't have Junior teams anywhere near them.

Ladbrokes League One

No. Club Average vs '16 Highest
1 Airdieonians FC 830 -3,6% 1.633
2 Livingston FC 797 -54,8% 1.099
3 Queen's Park FC 645 24,4% 957
4 East Fife FC 626 0,2% 918
5 Alloa Athletic FC 531 -52,6% 712
6 Peterhead FC 505 -20,7% 681
7 Albion Rovers FC 450 -19,0% 1.199
8 Brechin City FC 429 -20,7% 553
9 Stenhousemuir FC 429 -24,3% 604
10 Stranrear FC 409 -19,2% 523
. Total 565 -42,1% 1.633
 

One thing at that level is that any of them teams play away over xmas is a great bet to lay the away team.

 

It IS sustainable. This is a fact.

 

ETA: for an away game to Annan, it’ll take Peterhead’s goalkeeper 5 minutes to get to the game. Peterhead’s wages are that good that they can afford a goalkeeper from annan and a winger (as pointed out above) from Dumfries. What makes you think they’re struggling when they’re doing things like that?

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11 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 


It IS sustainable. This is a fact.

 

Well that was league 1 we were talking about league 2, though as said any team with an average attendance less than (well I said 1,000)  I'd go for 600-700 would benefit from a more regionalised league and bigger ones at that.  

The Lowland League and Highland league are here to stay now.

The Lowland in a few years could be a competitive and strong league.

Even this season could see

Cowdenbeath get relegated in to it and Kelty promoted from the EoS.

With most likely Ek or Cove into the SPFL.

Edited by Unknown Fan
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Well that was league 1 we were talking about league 2, though as said any team with an average attendance less than (well I said 1,000)  I'd go for 600-700 would benefit from a more regionalised league and bigger ones at that.   The Lowland League and Highland league are here to stay now.

The Lowland in a few years could be a competitive and strong league.

Even this season could see

Cowdenbeath get relegated in to it and Kelty promoted from the EoS.

With most likely Ek or Cove into the SPFL.

 

 

Yes league 2 is also sustainable. That is a fact.

 

I was a fan of a league 2 club last season. And as pointed out last season we had 12 journeys under 1 hour and 45 minutes. 6 longer journeys, the away days to Annan/Berwick and Elgin, these days out are by far the most popular ones with the supporters. You do not know what you’re talking about.

 

If I wanted to watch regionalised leagues with local players I’d go away and watch one of the several junior clubs close by for a lot less money.

 

However nobody is interested.

 

If Peterhead were back in a ‘regionalised’ league, the Highland League, they’d lose the vast majority of their players and drastically decline. Even places like Wick/Brora and Fort William can be up to 5 hours away from the town itself never mind where the players are based themselves.

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4 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Yes league 2 is also sustainable. That is a fact.

 

I was a fan of a league 2 club last season. And as pointed out last season we had 12 journeys under 1 hour and 45 minutes. 6 longer journeys, the away days to Annan/Berwick and Elgin, these days out are by far the most popular ones with the supporters. You do not know what you’re talking about.

 

If I wanted to watch regionalised leagues with local players I’d go away and watch one of the several junior clubs close by for a lot less money.

 

However nobody is interested.

The SPFL has been a closed shop for decades.  This is only the 4th year in recent history that a club can gain promotion on merit and not by some in house vote.

Hence the clubs within the SPFL yours being one has a long line of history and tradition within the league system and all the luxuries that come with that.

Scottish league system is bizarre there are dozen and more clubs outwith the the SPFL that are just as good and would probably love to be in the position your club is in though there is only this small mouses trapdoor from the SPFL that is heavily weighted in favour of the team finishing 10th in league 2.  Last year like every other since the 1/3 a chance of getting promoted away goals didn't count for EK.  

Though as it stands there are 4 Highland league teams still in the Scottish Cup one League 2 team a handful of League 2.  Teams below the Prem and Championship and possible top of league one (the full time clubs) after that there is little in difference in possible way of standard between 30 odd League 2, Lowland, Highland and well run Junior clubs. 

There is a possibility in time the top Highland and Junior clubs will filter through and you may be as likely as going to Bank o'Dee,Cove or Linlithgow on a day out as you are to Forfar or Annan.

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