DC92 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 - dropping the smaller clubs from 38 games to 32 (while the bigger clubs keep 36) is a huge hit to income. The teams in the bottom 8 play 36 games under this format. 26 regular season games, 6 games in their group then 2 further 2-legged play-offs to determine their overall standing in the league table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC92 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 That was with entry at the third qualifying and playoff rounds. Scotland's coefficient has taken a nosedive since then. The prize now is for entry at the first qualifying round long before clubs like that make their appearance. Yes, and the team we played against in the 3rd qualifying round before Spurs (Paksi) were absolutely rotten. It's far from inconceivable that Scottish teams can reach the play-off round again. After Spurs beat us they ended up getting St Patrick's in the group stage. And if your argument is that Europe isn't much of a prize then it kind of renders the whole convoluted 10-game play-off system to determine which team finishes 7th a bit pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 league cup games during the summer holiday period arent guaranteed to bring in the punters, lesser league games means season ticket reduction in price which means less guaranteed money for said clubs But could be a way to keep 38 games guaranteed to provide an excuse to keep the season ticket price the same if there is league reconstruction. I don't see what's in it for the bigger clubs otherwise? And if your argument is that Europe isn't much of a prize then it kind of renders the whole convoluted 10-game play-off system to determine which team finishes 7th a bit pointless. Not totally sold on that angle either, but seems to me that the clubs that finish in the 7-10 sort of range might get more excited about European qualification than those that finish 3-5 as typically they'll be clubs that seldom get into Europe. Last season the 7th club was Hamilton Accies, who have never played in European competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Nederlander Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 What the actual f'ck is this pish? Seems a right clusterf'ck to me ! Last one out switch the lights off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdTheDuck Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 The problem with qualifying for Europe isn't qualifying for Europe and playing in the first qualifying round, it's the self inflicted wailing & teeth gnashing because "we" lost to a team from Belarus/Kazakhstan/Norway because Scottish clubs used to be gooder in Europe ye ken. Sort our own league, give teams (The Rest, not 'them) something tangible & worthwhile to aim for rather than worrying about fucking Europe other than as a nice distraction for a few weeks. As much excitement as can be manufactured in a short, sharp tournament, that's the ticket, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 We've just had the leagues reconstructed, why do we need to change things so soon? Anyway we can't bring this in mid season, we 'signed' up for one up and one down, with the play offs too. If we know what we're playing for at the start of next season then the following season would be ideal to extend the leagues, with two up and two down, a straight play off between third bottom and third top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 We've just had the leagues reconstructed, why do we need to change things so soon? Because clubs like Hibs, Hearts and Dundee United were not supposed to ever get relegated and the TV companies like the idea of two post-split Old Firm games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC92 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 But could be a way to keep 38 games guaranteed to provide an excuse to keep the season ticket price the same if there is league reconstruction. I don't see what's in it for the bigger clubs otherwise? Not totally sold on that angle either, but seems to me that the clubs that finish in the 7-10 sort of range might get more excited about European qualification than those that finish 3-5 as typically they'll be clubs that seldom get into Europe. Last season the 7th club was Hamilton Accies, who have never played in European competition. There aren't any teams in the league outside Celtic who are in Europe regularly enough to become bored by it. If we qualify this year it'll have been four years since we last played a European tie, Hibs are also likely to go at least four years, Aberdeen had five years out of Europe until last year, Dundee United haven't been in it since Hearts last were, Dundee haven't been in it for over ten years etc. etc. I doubt these clubs are going to be any less motivated than the likes of Hamilton. This will probably be especially true in a few years when Celtic and Rangers are finishing in the top two and there'll likely only be one or two other places up for grabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alba16 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Premiership - 16 Championship - 16 League 1 - 10 Current pyramid system below that. The leagues of 16 split into 8-8 after 30 games for 1 more round of fixtures. Game 31 is 1v2, 3v4, 5v6, 7v8. Teams in 1, 2, 3, 4 get 4 home games, the remaining teams in that split get 3. 2 automatically relegated from both leagues plus Play-offs for 14th in the Premiership and 3, 4 & 5 in the championship. Means that some teams will lose 1 home game from what they currently have. Also if the SPFL could bring this in for next season, saves us from getting beaten by Hibs/Rangers/Falkirk/Morton in the play offs, that would be swell. Either this or just play all 42 teams once and do NFL style play offs too. Play the full thing in the USA as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcor Roar Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 14 teams with a top 6 bottom 8 would be good. You finish in the top 6 then you play the better teams and reap higher gates. Finish in the bottom 8 then the teams you play are worse/lower crowds but you get an extra couple of games. The only downside is to split after 26 games is a bit early in the season. We need to freshen things up and I like the split but it's not balanced just now so in terms of sporting integrity its currently a bit unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I wonder to what degree this idea may just be an embryonic possibility - perhaps alongside others - versus something which has already been settled on in detail and fine-tuned. I'm noticing that Doncaster's actual quotes only amount to a couple of sentences... only one of which actually mentions anything specific, and that only to give the example that the Danish are doing something new. It appears to be the Scotsman journalist has gone away and looked up how that's going to be arranged, and has then filled-out the rest of his article with it. Over in the BBC article they actually give more text to the "foreign games" idea and the bit about the leagues is not very committal at all. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35037580 ... The SPFL on Monday announced a revamped League Cup format for the 2016/17 season, including an initial group stage, penalty kicks after 90 minutes of drawn matches and bonus points for teams who win those shootouts. A new television deal has also been agreed with BT Sport, worth in the region of £8m to Scottish clubs over four years. Doncaster says the SPFL will continue to look at innovative ways to attract more fans, with a bigger league also catching his attention. "We always want something bigger and better than we have at the moment," he said. "Hopefully with the changes we've announced with the League Cup we've delivered that, but the discussion will continue. "If you look at Denmark they are currently bringing in a 14-team league from what was a 12-team league previously. Innovation in league football always continues all around the world and we're no exception." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid android Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Football used to be great - these c***s are killing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 What's wrong with an 18 team league and no split? Call me a communist if you will. Absolutely this. Playing teams twice a season, no split and a much broader league. Unfortunately it might not be marketable enough but with BT basically buying anything these days maybe they would take it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Where has the support come from for yet another reconstruction? Other than Celtic dominating the league, which wouldn't change with reconstruction, last season was pretty exciting. Really don't see any good reason to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 I wonder to what degree this idea may just be an embryonic possibility - perhaps alongside others - versus something which has already been settled on in detail and fine-tuned... Think it goes without saying that this isn't close to being 100% settled yet. The key point is that it is being floated, because it provides a possible viable solution to the issues that sunk 14[6/8] previously and addresses some of the main problems with 12[6/6] after 33 games. Meanwhile Ann Budge had this to say: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/league-cup/spfl-hits-back-at-ann-budge-over-league-cup-changes-1-3969900 “We’ve talked about a winter break, we’ve talked about summer football, this is the beginning of something. So I’m not saying it’s wrong, just that I would have liked to have known more about it before it was announced. That's a bit enigmatic to say the least, but it strongly suggests that the revamp of the League Cup is not being done in isolation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry O'Driscoll Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I don't mind tbe current structure especially with the play-offs. If teams do want to play less games, though I doubt that is the case, split after 22 games and play teams in your section a further twice which would also get rid of the fixture imbalance the current set up causes. If we are going to go mental though we could do worse than copy the Rugby League set up down south and have play-offs and a Grand Final. Would open up the championship and provide excitement. Though will never happen as football fans are relatively conventional and struggle to understand other systems compared to fans of other sports for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Where has the support come from for yet another reconstruction? Other than Celtic dominating the league, which wouldn't change with reconstruction, last season was pretty exciting. Really don't see any good reason to change it. Agree to a large extent, tbh. It's been the story of Scottish football since WWII - I read a historical article where the writer approximately totalled the various mooted reconstructions and it numbered over 20 in about 50 years, and of those 8 came to pass. It's always been a sort of promised land at the end of a rainbow, a reflection of a feeling of insecurity, and an obsession. In the last 10-12 years there have been official proposals to go up to 14 (splitting 6/8), down to 10, and change to 12+12 (splitting 8-8-8.), the latter 2 promoted by the league hierarchy itself. Not to mention other floated ideas and calls for 16, 18 or 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Where has the support come from for yet another reconstruction? Other than Celtic dominating the league, which wouldn't change with reconstruction, last season was pretty exciting. Really don't see any good reason to change it. The main impetus for change appears to be finding a way to avoid late season fixture backlogs: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-reconstruction-clubs-slam-door-5700505 The league chief paved the way for more reconstruction talks by admitting an expanded elite league would be the solution to the end-of-season fixture pile-up that has wreaked havoc with the Scottish Cup and promotion play-offs. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-chief-neil-doncaster-qa-5694478 KJ: But the prospect of moving the League Cup to the summer? ND: We should look at it and work with the clubs to see what they want. One of the biggest issues we face is fixture congestion. We have ended up in a situation where we could have had the same clubs playing in the Scottish Cup Final and the play-off final on the same weekend but obviously that was avoided. KJ: That was a shambolic episode, wasn’t it? ND: It’ll be the same next year. Is that a shambles? Or is it a conscience decision that we have taken because the alternative is having another midweek fixture, maybe in January, or extending the season into June when you don’t need to? The reality is we have too many games. But if you want a schedule with no possible conflicts you’d be asking players to play all year without a break. Fixture congestion is a real problem and it’s going to result in the sort of issues we’ve had this year until we end up with a league structure where you have fewer games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Why doesn't Doncaster just come out and tell us he wants Celtic and "Rangers" playing each other 38 times and f*ck everyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry O'Driscoll Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Agree to a large extent, tbh. It's been the story of Scottish football since WWII - I read a historical article where the writer approximately totalled the various mooted reconstructions and it numbered over 20 in about 50 years, and of those 8 came to pass. It's always been a sort of promised land at the end of a rainbow, a reflection of a feeling of insecurity, and an obsession. In the last 10-12 years there have been official proposals to go up to 14 (splitting 6/8), down to 10, and change to 12+12 (splitting 8-8-8.), the latter 2 promoted by the league hierarchy itself. Not to mention other floated ideas and calls for 16, 18 or 20. The 8 team super league idea in the early 90s was bonkers. I love the soap opera that is Scottish Fitba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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