14 team "Premiership" next season

[Trackdaybob]

Split here, split there, split's fuckin everywhere  

 

Why not just have a league....?? 

 

I know, I know teams, games, money, fixtures, fans , etc, etc but I thought I'd just throw it in there  

 

Carry on  

[TheScarf]

I kind of agree.  The other leagues in the SPFL manage fine without a split, as do the vast majority of the other tier 1 leagues in the world.  There's always going to be meaningless games at the end of the season.  You can't have every game in a league season meaning something.

[ggr]

I kind of agree.  The other leagues in the SPFL manage fine without a split, as do the vast majority of the other tier 1 leagues in the world.  There's always going to be meaningless games at the end of the season.  You can't have every game in a league season meaning something.

This.

Bring back the 18 team league. Everyone plays each other home and away.

Simple.

[EdTheDuck]

A split isn't actually necessary & in Scotland's case it was introduced as a practical means to avoid a 44 game season.

However, despite being marketed utterly abysmally by the SFA, SPL and now the SPFL it has been an unqualified success in creating interest and meaningful games.

Having said that if we do away with the split it will be for a 10 team league, not a 16 or an 18.

[tree house tam]

The current set up is fine unless your team is pish, that's where the problem lies. Shite like Killie,Hamilton,Hibs and Falkirk should be striving to finish in the top 6 and fighting for a European place through the league. They don't though, because they are shite.

[Falcor Roar]

This.

Bring back the 18 team league. Everyone plays each other home and away.

Simple.

 

Its not that simple though because then you're left with a Championship with teams like Alloa and Dumbarton fighting for promotion. 

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

Its not that simple though because then you're left with a Championship with teams like Alloa and Dumbarton fighting for promotion.

Basically, so what? I'm old enough to remember Dumbarton in the top league when it was ten teams and 2 of the current top 12 didn't pay league football.

The top 6 from the championship atm wouldn't weaken the top league at all as a competition.

I wouldn't worry though, Rangers being back will end any talk of any league that doesn't allow 4 OF league games a season.

[Enigma]

Croatian league has two Splits.

[HibeeJibee]

European 'splits':

 

 

Andorra

8 teams ... play x2 (14 games) ... split 4/4... play x2 (20 games)

 

Belgium

16 teams ... play x2 (30 games) ... split 6/4+4/2*... play x2 (40 or 36 games)

*bottom 2 stop after 30 games

 

Cyprus

14 teams ... play x2 (26 games) ... split 6/6/2*... play x2 (36 games)

*bottom 2 stop after 26 games

 

Denmark

14 teams ... play x2 (26 games) ... split 6/4+4 ... play x2 (36 or 32 games)

 

Israel

14 teams ... play x2 (26 games) ... split 6/8 ... play x2/x1 (36 or 33 games)

 

Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Wales

12 teams ... play x2 (22 games) ... split 6/6... play x2 (32 games)

 

Macedonia

10 teams ... play x3 (27 games) ... split 6/4 ... play x1/x2 (32 or 33 games)

 

Northern Ireland, Scotland

12 teams ... play x3 (33 games) ... split 6/6 ... play x1 (38 games)

 

Poland, Serbia

16 teams ... play x2 (30 games) ... split 8/8 ... play x1 (37 games)

 

Romania

14 teams ... play x2 (26 games) ... split 6/8 ... play x2 (36 or 40 games)

[Falcor Roar]

Basically, so what? I'm old enough to remember Dumbarton in the top league when it was ten teams and 2 of the current top 12 didn't pay league football.

The top 6 from the championship atm wouldn't weaken the top league at all as a competition.

I wouldn't worry though, Rangers being back will end any talk of any league that doesn't allow 4 OF league games a season.

 

 

It's a problem because if you get relegated from the top league, you have to play in a pub league with attendances under 1000. It's also a problem not having 4 OF games a season like you have pointed out. If we are going to expand then we need to use some sort of split. This talk of 18 or 20 team premierships is pointless, it can't get off the ground.

[tamba_trio]

As supporters, generally we want to see two teams who are reasonably similar play each other so the match is unpredictable and competitive.  I think so anyway.  

 

There's not much fun in knowing your team is going to be humped and then watching it happen.  Or, indeed, knowing if your team plays average they'll win 4-0 and that the only way it'll be a competitive game is if you're crap.

Whilst one side has a budget 20 times the other, any type of league reconstruction won't be much use.  There's not many ways you can make Team A with £20 million v Team B with 38p consistently interesting.

[Falcor Roar]

As supporters, generally we want to see two teams who are reasonably similar play each other so the match is unpredictable and competitive.  I think so anyway.  

 

There's not much fun in knowing your team is going to be humped and then watching it happen.  Or, indeed, knowing if your team plays average they'll win 4-0 and that the only way it'll be a competitive game is if you're crap.

Whilst one side has a budget 20 times the other, any type of league reconstruction won't be much use.  There's not many ways you can make Team A with £20 million v Team B with 38p consistently interesting.

 

Must be boring for you following Celtic then...

[RabidAl]

With a 14-team league and an 8/6 split you can have an expanded league, keep only teams of a similar quality playing each other four times, and have 8 teams still in with a shot at Europe until 3 games from the end of the season (when a second, wee split would be needed to make the numbers work).  If applied to the second tier it'd also keep the full-time clubs playing each other 4 times, which is thought to be necessary for their finances.

 

You'd also be guaranteed to have the best teams playing each other both home and away within the final 10 games of the season, when it really matters, and it'd be an even 36 games all round.  All of that would be an improvement on the current set up. 

 

If only 1st-10th qualified for the fourth round of the Scottish Cup, and only 5th-10th qualified as top seeds for the League Cup group stage, then there'd be good incentives to keep the top of the bottom section interesting until the season's end.  This could also apply across and down into tier 2, with 11th in the top tier down to 10th in the second tier qualifying for the third round of the Scottish Cup, and 11th in tier 1 down 6th in tier 2 qualifying to be in the second pot of seeds for the League Cup group stage, keeping the post-split section(s) in tier 2 interesting until the end of the season.  E.g.:

 

           Tier 1                                 Tier 2

 1        CL                            1        PR                              then

 2        EL                            2        PR                   [1st-4th play each other again once, at home or away (reverse of previous top 8 fixture): 36 games]

 3        EL                            3        PO2(h)

 4__  _EUPO(h)*_  __          4__  _PO1(a)_ _ -->  2) wee split after 33 games (after playing the rest of the top 8 once, either home or away)

 5        EUPO(a)*                 5        PO2(a)                           then

 6        SCR4,LCPA               6       SCR3,LCPB   [5th-8th play each other again once, at home or away (reverse of previous top 8 fixture): 36 games]

 7        SCR4,LCPA               7       SCR3

 8____SCR4,LCPA__            8       SCR3           --> 1) initial split after 26 games (after playing each team once at home and once away)

 9        SCR4,LCPA              9       SCR3

10       SCR4,LCPA             10      SCR3                            then

11       SCR3,LCPB             11      SCR2             [bottom 6 play each other again, once at home and once away, for relegation/cup places: 36 games]

12       PO1(h)                    12      SCR2

13       RL                          13       RL

14       RL                          14       RL

 

*Teams play off for final European place if 1st, 2nd or 3rd in league win Scottish Cup; SCR=Scottish Cup Round 2/3/4; LCP=League Cup Seed Pot A/B; PO=relegation/promotion play off, (h) home, (a) away; (most important outcome/incentive/rewards are shown here).

 

Below tier 2 it could echo the way that the juniors currently qualify for the Scottish Cup, with winners of North, East and West regional leagues and winners of a national Non-League Trophy qualifying to play off against each other for the two places that would give entry to the League.

 

Edit:

It would be better as part of a 14-14-18 national league set up, with an SFA academy under 17s national team permanently competing in the expanded third tier to develop the best youth talent that we have, and one team/club from each of east, west and north areas qualifying (2 best-placed from current Lowland League {one from west area, one from east area} and best-placed from Highland League) to make the numbers up to 18. 

 

Each club in this division would also have 18 home games (albeit in a 34 game season), because the SFA youth side wouldn't have any home games as such, but would live/train at Oriam, Riccarton in Edinburgh, travel the country and compete in all league and cup matches for third tier level.  They wouldn't be promoted/relegated since there'd be a new cohort of players each season, but could still aim to win the league, beat previous points totals and progress in cup competitions. 

 

Below this, ideally there'd be an integrated Non-League set up, with juniors and seniors competing in West of Scotland, North of Scotland and East of Scotland leagues. 

 

Ideally, there'd be a West, a North and an East academy (u17s) team competing in the regional top tiers, which would be of 16 teams each with 16 home games each (in a 30 game season) because the academies wouldn't need to have 'home' games.  Again, the academies would play in all cup games for that level of football. 

 

Promotion to the national leagues would be decided by: the winners of West, East and North regions playing off against 17th place of the third national tier; they would drawn into two semi-finals, with the winners of each semi-final qualifying to play in tier 3 of the national leagues for the following season; 18th place in tier 3 would have been automatically relegated. 

 

Scottish Cup format (114 teams, 9 rounds):

Preliminary Round (20 teams): Best 6 from each of West, North and East second divisions; 2 Amateur Cup finalists.

Round 1 (40 teams): 10 from Preliminary Round; bottom 10 from each regional first division.

Round 2 (60 teams): 20 from Round 1; 6 each from regional top tiers; all 18 from national Conference; 4 from national Championship.

Round 3 (44 teams): 30 from Round 2; remaining 10 from Championship; bottom 4 from Premiership.

Round 4 (32 teams): 22 from Round 3; remaining 10 from Premiership.

 

Challenge Cup format (80 teams, 7 rounds):

Round 1 (60 teams): all 16 teams from each regional top tier; bottom 12 teams from national Conference.

Round 2 (36 teams): 30 teams from Round 1; remaining 6 teams from Conference.

Round 3 (32 teams): 18 teams from Round 2; all 14 teams from Championship.

 

League Cup format (46 teams, 5 rounds):

Group Stage (42 teams): 42 teams from all 3 national divisions, except 4 European representatives; 6 groups of 5 and 2 groups of 6 (play each other team once, home or away, 4-5 games each, split gate receipts, played pre-season in summer as we currently do).

Round 3 (16 teams): 8 group winners; 4 runners-up; 4 European representatives.

[Trackdaybob]

Not good enough that. Try making it more complicated.

[HibeeJibee]

It genuinely took me a couple of attempts to decipher that, even without the cup stuff.

 

 

Basically you've got 14 teams that splits into 8/6 after 26 games...

 

... the 6 play twice again, total 36 games...

 

... and the 8 play once, split again into 4/4, and play once again, total 36 games?

 

 

I don't know if any country has tried a split within a split before. Careful, you've give Doncaster ideas.

[RabidAl]

^ Exactly.  (Well deciphered!) 

 

So there'd be larger leagues, but it would keep the commercially lucrative element of 'best vs best' four times in a season.  

 

The second split would come 3 games from the end of the season, so 8 teams would be competing for Europe until then at least. 

 

(All of the 'cup stuff' was to try to keep the top of the bottom 6 interesting for the 10 post-split games, but 2-3 relegation places might do that.) 

[honestly united]

I prefer the 16 team split used in Poland and Serbia of playing each other twice then split 8/8 and play everyone once for 37 games.

 

I also fits better with 2 national leagues of 16 then regionalisation under that

[RabidAl]

Would our administrators and the big clubs go for that though?  Would the Old Firm play their third and final league match at Hampden or how would it work? 

 

They seem to be determined to play x4 each season for financial reasons, so any split would probably have to take that into account.  The same is supposed to be true of the second tier, where full-time clubs would want the larger away supports of other full-timers visiting twice a season for financial reasons.

 

Divisions of 14 would keep a larger full-time element in the second tier, so there'd be a greater depth of quality to promote from than with 16. 

 

In both formats there'd also be a landing strip (?) in tier 2 for the best half-dozen or so part-timers to realistically aim towards, and this would give the full-timers some leeway in terms of not being under the immediate threat of relegation to tier 3 that they face every season at the moment.    

[Eder]

What a pity Doncaster & co didn't listen.  There is so much wrong with the 12 club league maybe our blind chairmen deserve the unfair format but the fans don't.

 

It is wrong that some fans are getting different games in their season ticket package, i.e. some will see Barton, Brown & the circus 4 times while others will only see them twice.

 

A league should be equal and not open to doubts about its honesty.

[tree house tam]

Only diddies in the bottom half moan about the split.

It's marvellous I tell you, marvellous.