St Mirren Relegation Express. Championship Edition.

[djchapsticks]

1 hour ago, TheMessiah said:

so Jack Ross is great because he successfully improved upon the worst St Mirren side in about 50 years? ok m8s

No. He's great because anyone who saw us early on in the season agreed that the side had relegation written all over it. He's gradually pulling us out of a seemingly unstoppable tailspin, with a huge turnover of players in a notoriously tough window. Some Morton fans were quick to point out that they tried the same a couple of years ago with disastrous results. 

The fact is that at one point this season we were 12 behind Ayr, 12 behind Dumbarton and 19 behind Raith Rovers. 

Regardless of budgets, the turnaround in 10 weeks has been quite significant 

[RandomGuy.]

Pretty shocking to see folk who've spent the last few months mocking St Mirren getting all uppity about a manager who's vastly outperforming their own.

Fingers crossed St Mirren survive.

[Coventry Saint]

9 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

Third or fourth biggest wage bill in the league probably? Stunning achievement to win a handful of games imo.

 

28 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

"worked miracles" by getting within a point of part time Ayr. Incredible.

You're correct on both counts, obviously, and 'miracles' is clearly a bit strong. But 1) it should go without saying that it's possible to waste a big wage bill on utter fucking dross and 2) this was literally, without exception, the worst St Mirren side of all time and Ross was faced with the task of getting rid of an ingrained losing mentality that stretches back a good few seasons.

Turning that around is an ok achievement and he's on pass marks so far, but we are a very long way from being safe still. But you seem to be getting a bit pissy because we're pleased that there are some green shoots of recovery? OK.

 

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Pretty shocking to see folk who've spent the last few months mocking St Mirren getting all uppity about a manager who's vastly outperforming their own.

Fingers crossed St Mirren survive.

Quite. It's like they're personally offended that we've tried (finally) to get out of this mess. There is going to be some amount of seethe on here if we stay up. 

[tonnitus]

4 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

It's like they're personally offended that we've tried (finally) to get out of this mess.

Not offended, just disappointed...

[Coventry Saint]

1 minute ago, tonnitus said:

Not offended, just disappointed...

Don't be! Surely the our relegation will be even more 'glorious' if we've actually put up a fight and given our fans hope of survival? 

[Marshmallo]

9 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

 

You're correct on both counts, obviously, and 'miracles' is clearly a bit strong. But 1) it should go without saying that it's possible to waste a big wage bill on utter fucking dross and 2) this was literally, without exception, the worst St Mirren side of all time and Ross was faced with the task of getting rid of an ingrained losing mentality that stretches back a good few seasons.

Turning that around is an ok achievement and he's on pass marks so far, but we are a very long way from being safe still. But you seem to be getting a bit pissy because we're pleased that there are some green shoots of recovery? OK.

This is a good fair post. I find the hero worship from others odd.

[Coventry Saint]

7 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

I find the hero worship from others odd.

Agreed. We have lost a great number of games under Jack Ross that we really shouldn't have done. He's had the benefit of the doubt because of the mess he inherited, but I'll save the hero worship for when he manages to earn us a final league placing befitting our general size as a club.

[NorthBank]

2 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

"worked miracles" by getting within a point of part time Ayr. Incredible.

 

 

Considering we had the shittiest squad playing the worst football in living memory (and that is by watching the Buds for decades) then for the Championship leading manager and the Premiership leading manager to both say that St Mirren were the best team they had played (domestically) this season maybe gives some kind of idea the progress that Ross has made with a new bunch of guys in only 12 weeks since January.

[Coventry Saint]

8 minutes ago, NorthBank said:

Considering we had the shittiest squad playing the worst football in living memory (and that is by watching the Buds for decades) then for the Championship leading manager and the Premiership leading manager to both say that St Mirren were the best team they had played (domestically) this season maybe gives some kind of idea the progress that Ross has made with a new bunch of guys in only 12 weeks since January.

It certainly points to a bright future, and if we stay up I'll certainly celebrate because of the journey we've been on this season.

When the dust settles, the only possible conclusion will be that we have massively underachieved regardless of where we finish, but I am confident that Jack Ross is worth a go next season, in this league or League One, based on the business he did in January and our form since then.

[The Moonster]

12 hours ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Was he #2 to Ian Murray when he kept Dumbarton up from a similar position?

If so I think we've found the brains of that operation

Bit harsh on Murray IMO. Jack Ross was also number 2 to Alan Adamson, a duo that had us sitting rock bottom with 5 points at the end of November. If he's getting all the praise for turning us around then he deserves all the stick for getting us into the hole we were in.

Management teams aren't just about 1 guy.

[flyingscot]

Having watched Alex Rae embarrass himself, anything would have been an improvement. That said Jack has done a good job given the hand he was dealt. The football has improved, the results perhaps more slowly and the atmosphere and believe is back. 

Like others said, we could have splashed cash on 10 diddies in January and bought worse players - change for change sake. But we were patient- when other teams got players in we waited despite some fans being exasperated and got the right players for the right positions. 

We know we'll probably get a kick in the teeth sooner rather than later and we are still 1 behind Ayr (game in hand) and 4 behind Raith. With 8 games to go I'd prefer to be in the driving seat and ahead looking back but we are at least giving it a crack. 

[The Minertaur]

Fair do's St Mirren.  Impressive results recently.  

"The St Mirren Championship Express is going..."

 

 

[Stu]

3 hours ago, Coventry Saint said:

Agreed. We have lost a great number of games under Jack Ross that we really shouldn't have done. He's had the benefit of the doubt because of the mess he inherited, but I'll save the hero worship for when he manages to earn us a final league placing befitting our general size as a club.

I still find it incredible that folk are prepared to give Ross a free pass given he was appointed with the best part of three months to the transfer window. There were still good players in that squad and we should have been capable of far better results than he managed - as the cup form proved. A lot of fans seemed to think October to January was just a waste of time as it wasn't his squad - and you could argue from the results folk at the club thought the same

1 hour ago, NorthBank said:

Considering we had the shittiest squad playing the worst football in living memory (and that is by watching the Buds for decades) then for the Championship leading manager and the Premiership leading manager to both say that St Mirren were the best team they had played (domestically) this season maybe gives some kind of idea the progress that Ross has made with a new bunch of guys in only 12 weeks since January.

I would argue Tom Hendrie's final squad and the team assembled by John Coughlin were worse than what Rae - full of lazy, injury prone has beens like Dow and Twaddle and guys who worked hard but were ultimately useless like Dunn and Crilly - although I suppose the latter was still miles better than Kyle sodding Hutton.

[flyingscot]

1 minute ago, Stu said:

I still find it incredible that folk are prepared to give Ross a free pass given he was appointed with the best part of three months to the transfer window. There were still good players in that squad and we should have been capable of far better results than he managed - as the cup form proved. A lot of fans seemed to think October to January was just a waste of time as it wasn't his squad - and you could argue from the results folk at the club thought the same

I would argue Tom Hendrie's final squad and the team assembled by John Coughlin were worse than what Rae - full of lazy, injury prone has beens like Dow and Twaddle and guys who worked hard but were ultimately useless like Dunn and Crilly - although I suppose the latter was still miles better than Kyle sodding Hutton.

I think he had a lot of hard luck in October to January however and the upturn in performances probably earned him the free pass from some. 

Rae's squad was an unbalanced shambles and I can't really work out if Hendrie or Coughlin's squads were worse- they were probably more competitive with the bottom end of the division at the time. 

[gc_smfc]

If we go down it'll be entirely down to the periods prior to Ross and between October and January that Ross failed to make an impact, purely in terms of points.

His transfer dealings look mainly good although a few are now sitting on the bench with limited impact, he however was given a bit of money to play with after the sale of McAllister. A massive gamble on a manager who was failing in his job.

Wins against Dundee, Hibs, Ayr and Utd in the last few weeks paper over the cracks of the slow measurable improvement we've experienced in the league, since Ross has taken over, a lot of missed chances to close the gap on Raith etc. Maybe I'm being incredibly harsh, but our run in is tough and we seem too prone to dropping points against teams that negatively affect our chances of staying up. We need to start having an impact against them if we are going to give us a chance of staying up.

[sergie's no1 fan]

I was critical of JR when we were getting near to the January transfer window, we were leaking goals, didn't look they the players knew what he wanted from them, no direction apart from heading South. He didn't even make us hard to beat.

I said on bnw army he doesn't deserve a free pass, some folk took that to mean he should be sacked which wasn't my opinion at the time.

Have to give him the benefit of doubt and put it down to Alex Rae's signings, we were reliant on Quinn who is made of chocolate.

We are playing much better now, the players and fans are pulling together, it seems so long ago since JR was having that discussion with the fan in the stand.

[TheMessiah]

It's a lot easier to catch raith and ayr when they keep getting pumped every week tbf ayr's only league win since october was against the rovers, whose only league win since october was yourselves in what was the biggest game of your season so far. putting in performances against celtic, hibs and united is all very well and good, but you also lost 2-0 to a team that got slutshamed by part-time dumbarton. until the worst teams in the league stop turning you over, the jury must still be out for Ross.

[irvine_buddie]

4 minutes ago, TheMessiah said:

It's a lot easier to catch raith and ayr when they keep getting pumped every week tbf ayr's only league win since october was against the rovers, whose only league win since october was yourselves in what was the biggest game of your season so far. putting in performances against celtic, hibs and united is all very well and good, but you also lost 2-0 to a team that got slutshamed by part-time dumbarton. until the worst teams in the league stop turning you over, the jury must still be out for Ross.

I don't disagree, but we also beat Ayr 2-0 in what was essentially a win or your down game. The upcoming games against Ayr and Raith will tell us wether the loss at Raith was a blip due a lot of games in a short space of time or wether we really can't turn it on against the bottom 4 or 5 teams.

[TheMessiah]

6 minutes ago, irvine_buddie said:

I don't disagree, but we also beat Ayr 2-0 in what was essentially a win or your down game. The upcoming games against Ayr and Raith will tell us wether the loss at Raith was a blip due a lot of games in a short space of time or wether we really can't turn it on against the bottom 4 or 5 teams.

Looking at the fixture list I can see a possible maximum of 4 points excluding those games, vital doesn't even cover it.

[sergie's no1 fan]

18 minutes ago, TheMessiah said:

Looking at the fixture list I can see a possible maximum of 4 points excluding those games, vital doesn't even cover it.

Why though? As you have just said we have beaten Hibs and United in recent weeks. 

Hibs will already have wrapped up the league by the time we play them. United, Morton and Falkirk should all be in the play offs come the last 4 games. Can only see Morton bursting a gut to try and beat us, Hibs will be in holiday mode or resting up for a Scottish Cup final and United & Falkirk will be in play off mode.