Teams to Have Made It Since Scotland Last Did.

[HibeeJibee]

You'd like to think the SFA haven't decided we're all a bunch of xenophobes because the fans turned against Berti. Everyone seemed quite pleased that we'd landed a high-profile (at the time) German coach, and the sudden drop in performance just made it look like he didn't have a clue what he was doing (and I know there are plenty of mitigating factors for that). I'd be amazed if anyone had a problem with a foreign coach being considered, so long as they had a decent track record.

I think there is - or would be - considerable fear over taking a foreigner, especially if they didn't succeed. If Strachan had gone Moyes would be a stick-on, IMO.

Lars Lagerback actively put himself forward to replace Burley and Levein but the very idea seems to have been a no-no. He went to Iceland...

[Tulloch Gorum]

I struggle to see how anyone can buy the "hard luck" theory. Yeah, maybe once or twice you don't make it because of a dodgy refereeing decision, or you don't get the breaks on the day... but not consistently over nine qualifying campaigns in a row. Nobody says Finland have been unlucky not to qualify for anything, they just know they're not very good.

And the dinosaurs on the radio need to realise that us voluntarily moving backwards forty years isn't going to help. Maybe if we stop coaching youngsters, get back to kicking a tanner baw on the streets... and convince Yugoslavia, the USSR and Czechoslovakia to reform, get the Scandinavian countries to disband their professional leagues, reanimate the corpse of Alex Harvey, remind everyone how much more fun fitba was when everyone had sideburns and nobody had heard of pressing or false nines and get Tiswas back on telly... then, with a mighty roar of "get it up the park!", a spindly, bow-legged winger will dash to the byline, a burly striker will barge into the gloveless, green-or-yellow-jerseyed goalkeeper and Steven Naismith will still miss the resultant open goal. But at least a fish supper will only cost two groats and a tuppenny bit.

[forameus]

I struggle to see how anyone can buy the "hard luck" theory. Yeah, maybe once or twice you don't make it because of a dodgy refereeing decision, or you don't get the breaks on the day... but not consistently over nine qualifying campaigns in a row. Nobody says Finland have been unlucky not to qualify for anything, they just know they're not very good.

And the dinosaurs on the radio need to realise that us voluntarily moving backwards forty years isn't going to help. Maybe if we stop coaching youngsters, get back to kicking a tanner baw on the streets... and convince Yugoslavia, the USSR and Czechoslovakia to reform, get the Scandinavian countries to disband their professional leagues, reanimate the corpse of Alex Harvey, remind everyone how much more fun fitba was when everyone had sideburns and nobody had heard of pressing or false nines and get Tiswas back on telly... then, with a mighty roar of "get it up the park!", a spindly, bow-legged winger will dash to the byline, a burly striker will barge into the gloveless, green-or-yellow-jerseyed goalkeeper and Steven Naismith will still miss the resultant open goal. But at least a fish supper will only cost two groats and a tuppenny bit.

While I wouldn't just shrug and point to hard luck, we've definitely been on the end of some bad luck. It's by no means the reason why we've not qualified though - we just haven't been good enough.

Taking this campaign in isolation, we were unlucky that Ireland beat Germany, as most fully expected the Germans to run over the top of them. We were unlucky that an offside wasn't noticed for Ireland's goal in Dublin (but then I'm sure we've had luck in refereeing decisions elsewhere, even though none are springing to mind). But you have to get your own house in order before you start blaming bad luck. Had we beaten Georgia and still not qualified, the luck argument might have held more water, but we shat it in Tbilisi with a terrible performance, and that's why Ireland are still celebrating, and we're not.

As for the "solution" to all of it, I'd be happy if we could sit at the end of a campaign and honestly say that we played to the best of our abilities through every game. We can point to some good performances in the past two years, but that's pointless when one loss in Georgia fucked us over. If we play the best we can and still go out, then that's the way it is. We don't have - and probably never will have - the resources or patience to do the kind of tear-it-up-and-start-again operation that Germany did.

[Monkey Tennis]

While I wouldn't just shrug and point to hard luck, we've definitely been on the end of some bad luck. It's by no means the reason why we've not qualified though - we just haven't been good enough.

Taking this campaign in isolation, we were unlucky that Ireland beat Germany, as most fully expected the Germans to run over the top of them. We were unlucky that an offside wasn't noticed for Ireland's goal in Dublin (but then I'm sure we've had luck in refereeing decisions elsewhere, even though none are springing to mind). But you have to get your own house in order before you start blaming bad luck. Had we beaten Georgia and still not qualified, the luck argument might have held more water, but we shat it in Tbilisi with a terrible performance, and that's why Ireland are still celebrating, and we're not.

We benefited from three own goals in the campaign and survived both Poland and Ireland hitting the woodwork very late on, against us.

We weren't just not especially unlucky.

We were in fact, if anything, actually quite fortunate.

It's incredible that Strachan has managed to convince so many that black is white.

[Cannon Fodder]

Really don't get this idea that own goals are lucky. They are usually the result of forcing a defender/goalkeeper into an error. This isn't luck.

[callum-ayr]

Basically us and the Faroe Islands haven't qualified.

[Raidernation]

The major issue is, and always has been, "Scottish" football is run to suit "blazers" and the "old firm"

The national side was an enjoyable sideshow, but really not that important.

Jobs for the boys, and WGS has already stated he's "delighted" none of the "senior" players want to quit! FFS man they're the players that FAILED to get us to a finals several times, so keeping them on is good?

I just don't understand this mentality.

[Gordopolis]

Really don't get this idea that own goals are lucky. They are usually the result of forcing a defender/goalkeeper into an error. This isn't luck.

There is something desperate and vulgar about an own goal though. Forcing an opposition player into a mistake just isn't the same as carving open an opportunity and finishing it yourself.

[ShawfieldAggro]

I could be wrong, but the idea that a defender scoring.an own goal suddenly strengthens your own credible merits as an attacking threat is laughable. Of course it's luck......Boyd had terrible misfortune against Brazil, McFadden got fortunate v Holland with the deflection....you can't legislate for it happening for or against you whatsoever. The sad fact it's still mentioned as being a one-way thing is showing Scotand up as being extremely immature and unbelievably thick. Not to mention one dimensional....even if a win was achieved in Tbilisi, it would have been interesting to witness the approach to the Germany and Poland games. This 'act of God' pish surrounding Southern Ireland's qualification needs to stop being encouraged too.

[Cannon Fodder]

I could be wrong, but the idea that a defender scoring.an own goal suddenly strengthens your own credible merits as an attacking threat is laughable. Of course it's luck......Boyd had terrible misfortune against Brazil, McFadden got fortunate v Holland with the deflection....you can't legislate for it happening for or against you whatsoever. The sad fact it's still mentioned as being a one-way thing is showing Scotand up as being extremely immature and unbelievably thick. Not to mention one dimensional....even if a win was achieved in Tbilisi, it would have been interesting to witness the approach to the Germany and Poland games. This 'act of God' pish surrounding Southern Ireland's qualification needs to stop being encouraged too.

Both of those goals you mentioned were the result of an attacking team opening up a defending team and creating a great chance. It came off Boyd in his desperate attempt to get back after we'd be done by a ball over the top, think it was de boer that made a last gasp lunge at mcfaddens shot that came about after an outrageous 1-2 with Fletcher.

This isn't luck, this is an attacking team working the ball into areas that create this panic and desperation. I don't believe in luck, we are where we are because we haven't been good enough.

[1320Lichtie]

McFaddens goal was ridiculously flukey, the fact there was a good one two before it doesn't change that.

[ShawfieldAggro]

Cafu hadn't beaten Leighton until Boyd, to credit, got back and unfortunately in the road. Van der Sar would have easily saved the shot had FdB not spun it out of control. 99% of own goals by definition occur because a team is under all sorts of pressure, it doesnt really matter how creative or otherwise the attacking team has been. Relying on them as an excuse for failure is ridiculous.

[Cannon Fodder]

Cafu hadn't beaten Leighton until Boyd, to credit, got back and unfortunately in the road. Van der Sar would have easily saved the shot had FdB not spun it out of control. 99% of own goals by definition occur because a team is under all sorts of pressure, it doesnt really matter how creative or otherwise the attacking team has been. Relying on them as an excuse for failure is ridiculous.

I don't think anyone is using own goals as an excuse. If you read back in the thread, someone suggested that, if anything, Scotland had actually benifited from luck in this campaign and highlighted 3 own goals as an example.

I was merely saying that i didn't think own goals were lucky.

[Monkey Tennis]

I don't believe in luck.

Is that not akin to not believing in gravity?

[HibeeJibee]

McCall is interviewed in today's Scotsman. He makes a few points. Firstly we're failing due to a lack of "young leaders" on the pitch - players for whom the game is "the be all and end all". Be that as it may "you can't give people desire", so the solution isn't particularly clear. He agrees with Strachan on ending non-competitive youth games... "if you're getting beaten 6-0 you have to take it"... plus makes an interesting allusion to the need for physicality: "I used to go to games and I'd burst my shinpads. My mum didn't have a lot so I played with a maths book and an English book down my socks".

[mizfit]

McCall is interviewed in today's Scotsman. He makes a few points. Firstly we're failing due to a lack of "young leaders" on the pitch - players for whom the game is "the be all and end all". Be that as it may "you can't give people desire", so the solution isn't particularly clear. He agrees with Strachan on ending non-competitive youth games... "if you're getting beaten 6-0 you have to take it"... plus makes an interesting allusion to the need for physicality: "I used to go to games and I'd burst my shinpads. My mum didn't have a lot so I played with a maths book and an English book down my socks".

He had an interview in the sun also today, was reading it while I was waiting on my hospital appointment today and he said we need to stop using the games console excuse, every country has them and it's pathetic.

[HibeeJibee]

I'd agree with that.

I do find the weight of comment falling behind the "back to the future, back to the good old days" approach a bit concerning though, and some of it has an element of confusion to it. For example: the main reason for stopping competitive football under teenage years was to stop coaches picking players and tactics to win leagues and cups, not stop kids feeling 'beaten'. Players know they've been beaten 15-0 or 6-0 whether it counts for points or not.

[Monkey Tennis]

I'd agree with that.

I do find the weight of comment falling behind the "back to the future, back to the good old days" approach a bit concerning though, and some of it has an element of confusion to it. For example: the main reason for stopping competitive football under teenage years was to stop coaches picking players and tactics to win leagues and cups, not stop kids feeling 'beaten'. Players know they've been beaten 15-0 or 6-0 whether it counts for points or not.

Absolutely.

Guys like McCall might have been good at playing football. Some of them are even decent at organising a team.

Those skills are very different indeed though from those required to address a sporting culture that is failing to produce players of sufficient quality in sufficient numbers. In fact the skill sets have pretty much nothing to do with each other.

McCall will have spent virtually no time genuinely grappling with these questions, exploring data regarding participation and health levels for instance. When stupidly asked for a view though, he stupidly provides one.

He's not remotely qualified to offer anything coherent that bears scrutiny, which is why he doesn't.

[ShawfieldAggro]

Absolutely. McCall has only ever been hired to provide instant results. This includes, but not exclusive to, motivating post-generational professional sportsmen to a degree of competitive excellence. I refuse to believe that anyone he's managed, didn't witness, or was acutely aware of, McCall's trophy and caps' haul. So, in turn, the desire to learn, and be taught, is as guilty as the inability of some of the good guys getting their point across succinctly. I speak as a Clyde fan.struggling to see exactly what Barry Ferguson envisages a team in his 'style' is meant to be.....the same Ferguson who.is among the most decorated players in our game.

[Tulloch Gorum]

Absolutely. Guys like McCall might have been good at playing football. Some of them are even decent at organising a team. Those skills are very different indeed though from those required to address a sporting culture that is failing to produce players of sufficient quality in sufficient numbers. In fact the skill sets have pretty much nothing to do with each other. McCall will have spent virtually no time genuinely grappling with these questions, exploring data regarding participation and health levels for instance. When stupidly asked for a view though, he stupidly provides one. He's not remotely qualified to offer anything coherent that bears scrutiny, which is why he doesn't.

Nail. Heid. Hit.

Universities don't get their researchers in theoretical physics to work out their strategies for boosting applications from international students or kids from disadvantaged backgrounds.