SilverWolfe Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Why do you think this? Why would it not be good? Whether we all like it or not its a fact that Sky and BT Sport and even the BBC wont pay a decent amount of money without Celtic and Rangers being in the league. We couldn't even get a sponsor for 3 years and the deal with Ladbrokes is worth next to nothing at the moment. With Rangers in the top flight we can negotiate better deals giving all clubs more money. With Rangers fans filling away sections at every club that will bring more money. Financially, I don't think anyone can argue that its a good thing having Rangers in the top flight. I would also imagine Aberdeen or Hearts fans would find it a lot sweeter finishing second/third in the league with Rangers finishing 4th. I fully expect this to happen next season. I hate Rangers more than most of you and for footballing reasons would rather laugh at them in the lower divisions for the rest of time but that isn't going to happen. Need to accept its about to happen and look at the positives it will bring. Perhaps you can provide some negatives for Scottish football having Rangers in the top flight? I don't see many to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 There were plenty of folk who were either lapsed supporters of various clubs - mainly Celtic - or who didn't/couldn't attend matches as often as they could or should who vowed, no, promised, that they would start attending matches more often should the Newco be kept out of the top flight. At the same time we had folk who vowed they would refuse to attend another of their own club's matches should they vote to allow them into the SPL, as it was then. Yet there was initially little to no difference to the attendances at these club's grounds and over the past three years there has been a decline in attendances at every single one of them. The facts do not lie What facts? you haven't got any stats to back up your claims and when confronted with clear ones that contradicted your agenda claimed they were 'selective'......its patently clear that most clubs have had an increase not a decrease in attendances and this has helped to clear bank debt at most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 They were selective, because, they were a handful which were used to support the view that attendances hadn't suffered. While there has been slight increases at certain clubs, namely Aberdeen and Hearts, that is the exception rather than the rule. At Motherwell our attendances are almost 2,000 down on what they were in season 2011/12, Celtic's are significantly down, as are Kilmarnock I'm sure, as do they even open the stand behind the goal for the home fans every week now? If I'm wrong about that one, fair enough, apologies to Killie fans. The point I am making is that the talk of boycotts back in 2012 I feel was pretty hollow, as hollow as the promises of increased attendances at the same time proved to be, so I'd guess that's why there is very little talk of boycotts now, because it would just look daft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Our crowds are down because of the dross on the park, absolutely nothing to do with Rangers (rip). Was trolling Steelmen getting that boring you decided to start over here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Our crowds are down because of the dross on the park, absolutely nothing to do with Rangers (rip). Was trolling Steelmen getting that boring you decided to start over here? Yes indeed, however if I remember correctly and I'm sure I do, that was another claim by those who were promising increased crowds/to stand by the club, that the quality on the park might diminish as a result of having less money due to the absence of Rangers, but that didn't matter. Now, I'm not for one minute saying that the absence of Rangers HAS been the cause of poor performances on the park, by us or anyone else, but crowds have diminished, particularly at Fir Park, so so much for "I don't care if we suffer on the park, as long as our board don't vote in favour of Newco". As for the bit about trolling, having a different set of views to the majority or not spouting the party line on a particular issue does not equate to trolling, its just one of those things in life, not everyone will hold the same views as each other. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alert Mongoose Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Lack of bus pass confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 The standard fell at Fir Park because of our last two managers not because of Rangers demise. Why are you so desperate to tie one to the other? I'm all for differing opinions but let's be honest here, there are Airdrie and Hamilton fans who take less pot shots at Motherwell than you. You also seem to be getting the 'bus fare' tag on here,why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 The standard fell at Fir Park because of our last two managers not because of Rangers demise. Why are you so desperate to tie one to the other? I'm all for differing opinions but let's be honest here, there are Airdrie and Hamilton fans who take less pot shots at Motherwell than you. You also seem to be getting the 'bus fare' tag on here,why is that? Yip, that's why I said that I didn't blame the demise in quality on the absence of Rangers, I refer you to my previous post. And I seem to be getting the 'bus fare' tag on here, why is that? God knows? Seeing as I've said nothing about the Ibrox mob on these forums or in this thread in any kind of positive nature, and even said that they were rightly not allowed to start in the SPL after liquidation. Indeed, this thread and my contributions isn't even anything to do with Rangers, old or new, rather what supporters of other clubs were talking about doing in the event of a potential outcome with them. This is Scotland though and 'Rangers' are the big bad wolf of Scottish football and some folk seem to be very sensitive about anyone voicing an opinion which departs even slightly from "They're bad, they're evil, they eat yer weans, if this happens with them we should boycott, protest" etc etc. Personally speaking though, 'Rangers' are an irrelevance to me and I've set foot in Ibrox twice in the last ten years, both times to support Motherwell. If I wanted to go to Ibrox and support Rangers, I'd do it as I've a lovely 2.0 litre car which could get me there in less than half an hour, but like I said, they are irrelevant to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 So irrelevant that you're crawling right up their arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 So irrelevant that you're crawling right up their arse. I'll get back to when I've found where I was "crawling right up their arse"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Why would it not be good? Whether we all like it or not its a fact that Sky and BT Sport and even the BBC wont pay a decent amount of money without Celtic and Rangers being in the league. We couldn't even get a sponsor for 3 years and the deal with Ladbrokes is worth next to nothing at the moment. With Rangers in the top flight we can negotiate better deals giving all clubs more money. With Rangers fans filling away sections at every club that will bring more money. Financially, I don't think anyone can argue that its a good thing having Rangers in the top flight. I would also imagine Aberdeen or Hearts fans would find it a lot sweeter finishing second/third in the league with Rangers finishing 4th. I fully expect this to happen next season. I hate Rangers more than most of you and for footballing reasons would rather laugh at them in the lower divisions for the rest of time but that isn't going to happen. Need to accept its about to happen and look at the positives it will bring. Perhaps you can provide some negatives for Scottish football having Rangers in the top flight? I don't see many to be honest. Pish min. I fully understand why your lot want them back but please don't bring the rest of us into it. And 'I hate rangers more than most of you'? Are you 12 years old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Why would it not be good? Whether we all like it or not its a fact that Sky and BT Sport and even the BBC wont pay a decent amount of money without Celtic and Rangers being in the league. We couldn't even get a sponsor for 3 years and the deal with Ladbrokes is worth next to nothing at the moment. With Rangers in the top flight we can negotiate better deals giving all clubs more money. With Rangers fans filling away sections at every club that will bring more money. Financially, I don't think anyone can argue that its a good thing having Rangers in the top flight. I would also imagine Aberdeen or Hearts fans would find it a lot sweeter finishing second/third in the league with Rangers finishing 4th. I fully expect this to happen next season. I hate Rangers more than most of you and for footballing reasons would rather laugh at them in the lower divisions for the rest of time but that isn't going to happen. Need to accept its about to happen and look at the positives it will bring. Perhaps you can provide some negatives for Scottish football having Rangers in the top flight? I don't see many to be honest. Have Rangers or Celtic filled any away ends in the last couple of years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LossieDee Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 "Irrespective of the final outcome of the tax appeal (which might take several more years), the football team had no advantage from any tax savings from the scheme put in place by the Murray Group," he said in a statement on Rangers' website. Dave King on BBC Sport website - Rangers did not have any advantage from attracting the players they did by offering them the chance to pay little or no income tax. What planet is this guy on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 They were selective, because, they were a handful which were used to support the view that attendances hadn't suffered. While there has been slight increases at certain clubs, namely Aberdeen and Hearts, that is the exception rather than the rule. At Motherwell our attendances are almost 2,000 down on what they were in season 2011/12, Celtic's are significantly down, as are Kilmarnock I'm sure, as do they even open the stand behind the goal for the home fans every week now? If I'm wrong about that one, fair enough, apologies to Killie fans. The point I am making is that the talk of boycotts back in 2012 I feel was pretty hollow, as hollow as the promises of increased attendances at the same time proved to be, so I'd guess that's why there is very little talk of boycotts now, because it would just look daft. Soooo again you have provided no actual real evidence...,but have been erm 'selective' in choosing one of the of and a club whose supporters hate their board.....how bout you look through the attendances for top 12 to 15 clubs over last 3 years and at least be honest....the trend for most clubs over last 3 years is more fans less debt....most clubs in top half of Scottish football are in better shape than 3 yrs ago.....feel free to show p&l reports to prove different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Rangers' demise has nothing -directly- to do with attendances as Motherwell, Killie etc. This, for me. Is down to a few factors: Pricing and TV overexposure as well as the following... The league is a sham. We had an opportunity to reinvigorate which was ignored and with the Rangers clusterfuck, it has become apparent that the authorities just want their mundane 2 horse race back. 'Diddy' fans are completely disaffected. their clubs are marginalised with the OF the be all and end all. Even Hugh Dallas was taking about 'small teams' etc in the context of refereeing on Sportsound. All teams should be equal. If we want a serious competition, we need to look at something radical, but the authorities and OF (despite moaning about lack of competition) wont have it. As long as they have their OF ££. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Why would it not be good? Whether we all like it or not its a fact that Sky and BT Sport and even the BBC wont pay a decent amount of money without Celtic and Rangers being in the league. We couldn't even get a sponsor for 3 years and the deal with Ladbrokes is worth next to nothing at the moment. With Rangers in the top flight we can negotiate better deals giving all clubs more money. With Rangers fans filling away sections at every club that will bring more money. Financially, I don't think anyone can argue that its a good thing having Rangers in the top flight. I would also imagine Aberdeen or Hearts fans would find it a lot sweeter finishing second/third in the league with Rangers finishing 4th. I fully expect this to happen next season. I hate Rangers more than most of you and for footballing reasons would rather laugh at them in the lower divisions for the rest of time but that isn't going to happen. Need to accept its about to happen and look at the positives it will bring. Perhaps you can provide some negatives for Scottish football having Rangers in the top flight? I don't see many to be honest. What a load of pish. No wonder other clubs fans get pissed off with this myth they somehow need either of us to financially prop then up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dipped Flake Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 They were selective, because, they were a handful which were used to support the view that attendances hadn't suffered. While there has been slight increases at certain clubs, namely Aberdeen and Hearts, that is the exception rather than the rule. At Motherwell our attendances are almost 2,000 down on what they were in season 2011/12, Celtic's are significantly down, as are Kilmarnock I'm sure, as do they even open the stand behind the goal for the home fans every week now? If I'm wrong about that one, fair enough, apologies to Killie fans. The point I am making is that the talk of boycotts back in 2012 I feel was pretty hollow, as hollow as the promises of increased attendances at the same time proved to be, so I'd guess that's why there is very little talk of boycotts now, because it would just look daft. there are 3 clubs that have been hit by rangers being liquidated, Celtic, Kilmarnock and Motherwell. Celtic because they can't sell season tickets on the basis of 2 OF derbies, and Kilmarnock/Motherwell because they prostituted themselves to the OF by giving them 2 stands (Kimarnock) or building them a huge stand (Motherwell). All other clubs are doing just fine and dandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 there are 3 clubs that have been hit by rangers being liquidated, Celtic, Kilmarnock and Motherwell. Celtic because they can't sell season tickets on the basis of 2 OF derbies, and Kilmarnock/Motherwell because they prostituted themselves to the OF by giving them 2 stands (Kimarnock) or building them a huge stand (Motherwell). All other clubs are doing just fine and dandy Huh? Our ST sales are fine, the problem for us is not qualifying for the CL, that's what hitting us in the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Hearts attendances were always going to rise as their support backed them more during administration and their season in the Championship. Aberdeen are hardly a prime example to use here as the period you mention saw them finish in the top six for the first time in five years and win a cup for the first time in nearly 20 years, I'm sure they'll drop away again as they eventually revert to being pish. St.Johnstone and Accies, fair enough I will give you them, but even then Accies were promoted in 2014 and St.Johnstone have performed well in recent years. You're stats there were quite selective and don't really support any theory that attendances have or haven't suffered. It's not popular view, I accept that, but that's how I see it. I said at the time and stand by it, that those howling at the moon about boycotting their own clubs should they vote to allow the newco into the top flight were spouting a whole load of hot air and bluster, and it would not have affected attendances greatly whatever happened. Those who attended regularly would continue to do so and those who were fair weather fans, or didn't attend regularly for whatever reason would continue to do so. Indeed, from the folk I encountered who were most vocal about how they would be finished with football should their club not vote the way they wanted, only one actually went to games. It's not unfounded nonsense, it's an opinion and an observation based on what people said at the time and what has happened since. You are absolutely correct to say that I have no way of knowing exactly what would have happened had newco been allowed to start in the top flight, but I do know that despite vows by the more vociferous folk at the time that they would turn out in numbers should the vote go the way they wanted, that hasn't happened and indeed, three years on, attendances have dropped - at some clubs, granted not all, as an earlier poster pointed out. As I said, I know this isn't a popular view, but that's how I see it. "I was wrong" would have been shorter and easier on the eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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