Squirrelhumper Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Get relegated the following season then. Bit defeatist to not even try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Get relegated the following season then. Bit defeatist to not even try. Yep, there is this fear of pushing themselves, 'we don't want to go up, its scary and we might come down if we aren't good enough' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Yep, there is this fear of pushing themselves, 'we don't want to go up, its scary and we might come down if we aren't good enough' "Except when we can get to play against senior sides in the cups and happily take the payday" Never really understood that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertha/BJFC1938 Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 Get relegated the following season then. Bit defeatist to not even try. Exactly and the term consolidation is what teams can even try and aim for in a new league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunrise Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Bonkers. If that's their attitude I wouldn't let them anywhere near the big boys Scottish cup. Has any junior club actually stated that though as opposed to a gaggle of fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Has any junior club actually stated that though as opposed to a gaggle of fans? A club, and more specifically in this case, a Junior club is nothing without the fans. Whether you agree with it or not, if the majority of the fans don't want the club to make the move, then it would be folly to go ahead. Talbot are in a unique position here. The best in the Junior grade consistently with a smashing set up all round. However, it has to be remembered that the area is still considered to be disadvantaged and the fans don't have bottomless pockets but invest heavily in their club. The people who follow the team are happy that their team have grown to boss the grade so much. To up the amount they pay each week (gate fees, travel costs) to play in a league where they will have to take time to establish themselves isn't an attractive proposition for them. Auchinleck Talbot F.C have to be mindful of this, whatever they as a club think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE63 exile Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Why on earth would you want to stay in a league once you've won it instead of taking promotion? As regards the North East clubs in the last 23 seasons only six have took promotion. This boils down to two main reasons. The cost of taking promotion and the main fact that most of the players don't want to jump up to the EvoStick because of the extra travelling. Take Darlington out of the equation but every team that has took promotion have been on a life support machine because of the crippling running costs in that league at sometime or other. Newcastle Blue Star and Spennymoor United didn't live to tell the tale, Durham City, Whitley Bay and Bishop Auckland have spent years recovering from it financially. Another major aspect is most of the North East players can get as much money playing in the Northern League on their doorstep rather than be away all day on a Saturday for 12-14 hours on a coach as far as Birmingham, North Wales or Lincolnshire. God knows but it's not a problem restricted to the juniors. Spennymoor did it for a few years in the English pyramid because they felt they didn't have the infrastructure in place to handle moving up.Your quite right to an extent about Spennymoor. They are one of the many North East that have had their fingers burned by taking promotion to this league and the original club went out of business as a result of the operating debts they incurred. When the club reformed the new owner admitted he wouldn't take promotion until the club could sustain operating at that level over a number of years. Get relegated the following season then. Bit defeatist to not even try. I can see where your coming from but its not as easy as that. Certainly if you reside in Yorkshire or Lancashire where the bulk of these clubs operate then yes. But in the North East its different. Last season I was told my local club Blyth Spartans shelled out in excess of around £15,000 just in bus costs alone. Then you have to pay the players extra money to travel. Then take into effect that they loss lucrative local derbies and a lot of visiting teams hardly bring any fans especially midweek when the likes of the Manchester/Yorkshire head up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Talbot almost went out the game in the mid seventies, the town and club rallied and won their first trophy in nearly 30 years in 1978. They have went from a club in a ramshackle ground who at times could barely put the same strip on 11 players to a fantastic club with superb stadium a brilliant support and have dominated a very difficult grade for well over 30 years. Totally self financing, ever improving and moving forward. They are a model of a progressive well run modern club who thrive within their means. Senior Football is full clubs who seem to be over stretched, live outwith their means and are happy to take the big pay out from SFA but who would surely fold without this. It's not Talbot or any other big Junior club who should be scrutinised or called into question. Senior football already has too many clubs, we have a Lowland League where more clubs are being invented every season with ambition of joining the big boys, in the words of a famous broadcaster, "is it me?". The whole thing is so fabricated and is Scottish football's equivalent to the Emperors New Clothes. Perhaps the beaks should look at Talbot as a model and have a rethink. My proposal, and I'll say it again, two top leagues of 16, top league full time, second league open to relegation but promotion with certain requirements in place. League two with bronze licence entry requirement, and an ability to draw support that consists of more than mums dads family and friends of the players on the pitch. The rest in a unified non league that has a route to top if clubs really have that capability. A national non league trophy and football run within it's limitations from top to bottom where it would thrive, just like Talbot, football could watch and learn from this fantastic wee club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo87 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Difficult to argue with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Still, you were pumped out the cup by Cumbernauld Colts and needed a replay to beat Broomhill Sports club. Thrive within your fishbowl all you like, the lowland clubs are leaving the Juniors behind. Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Talbot almost went out the game in the mid seventies, the town and club rallied and won their first trophy in nearly 30 years in 1978. They have went from a club in a ramshackle ground who at times could barely put the same strip on 11 players to a fantastic club with superb stadium a brilliant support and have dominated a very difficult grade for well over 30 years. Totally self financing, ever improving and moving forward. They are a model of a progressive well run modern club who thrive within their means. Senior Football is full clubs who seem to be over stretched, live outwith their means and are happy to take the big pay out from SFA but who would surely fold without this. It's not Talbot or any other big Junior club who should be scrutinised or called into question. Senior football already has too many clubs, we have a Lowland League where more clubs are being invented every season with ambition of joining the big boys, in the words of a famous broadcaster, "is it me?". The whole thing is so fabricated and is Scottish football's equivalent to the Emperors New Clothes. Perhaps the beaks should look at Talbot as a model and have a rethink. My proposal, and I'll say it again, two top leagues of 16, top league full time, second league open to relegation but promotion with certain requirements in place. League two with bronze licence entry requirement, and an ability to draw support that consists of more than mums dads family and friends of the players on the pitch. The rest in a unified non league that has a route to top if clubs really have that capability. A national non league trophy and football run within it's limitations from top to bottom where it would thrive, just like Talbot, football could watch and learn from this fantastic wee club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertha/BJFC1938 Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Still, you were pumped out the cup by Cumbernauld Colts and needed a replay to beat Broomhill Sports club. Thrive within your fishbowl all you like, the lowland clubs are leaving the Juniors behind. Good. Also beaten In the scottish senior cup by Edinburgh city. Junior clubs appear to want a taste of the Scottish senior cup and flit in and out of it without wanting to join any other way. A proper pyramid structure is needed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Still, you were pumped out the cup by Cumbernauld Colts and needed a replay to beat Broomhill Sports club. Thrive within your fishbowl all you like, the lowland clubs are leaving the Juniors behind. Good. Did you actually understand any of my post? Go on have a read again, but please open your mind this time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Also beaten In the scottish senior cup by Edinburgh city. Junior clubs appear to want a taste of the Scottish senior cup and flit in and out of it without wanting to join any other way. A proper pyramid structure is needed though. Hertha, the problem for Junior clubs in the big Scottish is that somewhere along the way it will impact on your chances of success. Talbot in my opinion prioritised the Tranent fixture over the Colts one and got what they deserved and Broadwood. However my proposal would perhaps change that issue. I use Talbot as a model of understanding potential and limitation, you could put a number of clubs forward as an example. I have no problem with promotion to the top, my problem is that there are already too many there. The invention of more clubs to fulfill a pyramid is just farcical. BSC and Colts have no ground, no support, no history or heritage. Incidentally Edinburgh City have no ground or support, why invent more clubs like this to manufacture a feeder league? Or should I say fabricate a facade. My proposal of two leagues of 16 and a proper unified non league well run would be the solution. Everyone would find their level, and a team would only step up if they really did bring something to the table, I have no problem with that. But let's stop inventing more teams in an already saturated market so that the SFA can kid themselves on that they have a credible feeder system. I for one would love to see good Junior clubs like Beith in a proper we'll run non league set up, I would welcome clubs from the current seniors and all, think it would be really exciting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Did you actually understand any of my post? Go on have a read again, but please open your mind this time! My mind is open. You are the best Junior team in Scotland. However you're already the lowland league, and the gap is only going to increase as the SFA invests in the league and its facilities. The Juniors are being left behind on and off the pitch by progressive forward thinking clubs. Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Teams are being "invented" because teams like ours are too scared of change. The only difference between your proposal and what already exists is that 10 clubs wouldn't play in a national league. That's the long and short of it and if you're telling me that a reduction to 32 would suddenly see everything move then I'm sorry, I don't believe that. Big fish accusations are unfortunately too valid. Junior teams are terrified of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertha/BJFC1938 Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Hertha, the problem for Junior clubs in the big Scottish is that somewhere along the way it will impact on your chances of success. Talbot in my opinion prioritised the Tranent fixture over the Colts one and got what they deserved and Broadwood. However my proposal would perhaps change that issue. I use Talbot as a model of understanding potential and limitation, you could put a number of clubs forward as an example. I have no problem with promotion to the top, my problem is that there are already too many there. The invention of more clubs to fulfill a pyramid is just farcical. BSC and Colts have no ground, no support, no history or heritage. Incidentally Edinburgh City have no ground or support, why invent more clubs like this to manufacture a feeder league? Or should I say fabricate a facade. My proposal of two leagues of 16 and a proper unified non league well run would be the solution. Everyone would find their level, and a team would only step up if they really did bring something to the table, I have no problem with that. But let's stop inventing more teams in an already saturated market so that the SFA can kid themselves on that they have a credible feeder system. I for one would love to see good Junior clubs like Beith in a proper we'll run non league set up, I would welcome clubs from the current seniors and all, think it would be really exciting! Good post however from a financial point of view maybe it would be better to give priority to the Scottish senior cup where a potential run and another game against hearts or such ilk would bring in easily a 5 figure sum which sets your club up for years. Of course realistically no junior club will ever win the Scottish senior cup and the junior cup is achievable and one that you guys have simply monopolised for years , however there's no way that Talbot have went about Scottish senior business lightly , it's the true acid test when the comparison between junior clubs and senior clubs can at long last be proven. For those junior clubs who have the privilege of appearing in the senior Scottish cup it should be a major thought in their agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Teams are being "invented" because teams like ours are too scared of change. The only difference between your proposal and what already exists is that 10 clubs wouldn't play in a national league. That's the long and short of it and if you're telling me that a reduction to 32 would suddenly see everything move then I'm sorry, I don't believe that. Big fish accusations are unfortunately too valid. Junior teams are terrified of change.My Lithgie chum, have a read at that post, are. You really saying that a top full time league of 16 with one below of 16 with only clubs with proper real senior potential able to access those leagues. Ten clubs dropping into a really vibrant non league set up regional with inter region play offs is not any different to what we have? Talbot have good reason for current their stance as have many other clubs, but I think this proposal would be a winner. There is no way upgrading boys clubs with no facilities or support can progress football in this country, it's just not credible, a nonsense. Your unwillingness to see why a club in Talbot's position, both financial and geographical, are perfectly right not to pay this the attention some believe they should demonstrates a fairly blinkered attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Talbot had an off day v Cumbernauld but totally disagree they focused on Tranent. They would beat them with nearly whatever team they put out or at least got a draw. The big game and tougher test out of the two was Cumbernauld and they didn't do enough to win that. They should have beat Cumbernauld or drew with them to earn a potential pay day v SPFL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Is a, I'm not blinkered at all. I completely understand the point you're making and I know there's a solid argument behind it. But essentially 32 v 42 and then have a pyramid. What I'm saying is that if clubs like yours and mine thought a bit bigger we wouldn't need "invented" teams. And the point about a pyramid is you find your level anyway. Maybe some clubs are afraid if finding their level. For me though, a complete failure to engage by the entire grade is symptomatic of fear of change more than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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