nsr Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Why not declare Sevco as Celtic B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 I don't mind the idea of B clubs as much as others it seems. But I agree with the poster who stated they should be ran as a separate team. Players would be signed to the B club and not just loaned/traded between clubs (especially outwith transfer window). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAl Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Not keen on the idea of B teams who are affiliated with clubs, but wouldn't mind seeing a couple of Scotland-wide, national under 20/development teams playing in the lower leagues/cups for the youths to gain experience, etc. The SFA could 'loan' the players from their parent clubs for a season or two (and insure them)...they might even be reasonably well supported by interested neutrals and Tartan Army die-hards. Not sure how to make it competitive for them though, since playing for promotion might not be possible without distorting the competition for the other clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAl Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 ...because the issue with B teams seems to be not only that the presence of old firm second teams in the second tier (for example) would distort the competition, but that they probably wouldn't include/develop many home-grown players anyway. And we also probably don't have enough depth for everyone to have a development side at a decent level anyway. With a national academy team of 16-17 year olds, included within an expanded third tier (e.g. in a 14-14-18 set-up) and playing in all cup competitions for that level, youngsters would be guaranteed a couple of full seasons at a good level against teams who are playing competitively - and there'd be plenty of general interest in watching their development, without the partisanship of them being a feeder team for a specific club. Thereafter, at ages 18+, they'd continue with the loan/first team development path as usual. The academy team could accrue points as normal, but wouldn't be promoted or relegated. Their goal might be to beat the previous academy teams' points totals, alongside player development and getting exposure at a senior, first team level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I quite like that idea in theory. Don't a few Asian leagues have teams like this on the go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAl Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Not sure. It just seems to be a good way for some of our more promising 16-17 year olds to accrue senior game experience at a time when they wouldn't be making the first team, or possibly even development team, at their clubs. They could have 40 to 80-odd senior games behind them by the time they're 18. So you might have a national academy squad of 22 players each season - composed of 11 under 17s and 11 under 18s at a given time - with the u18s returning to their parent clubs at the end of their 2 years, to be replaced in the first team by the former u17s, and a new cohort of 16 year olds coming in each season. There'd be on-going continuity, and they'd still be able to challenge to win their senior league and senior cups but just not be promoted (?). Maybe they'd play their home games somewhere central-ish, with good transport links north, east, west such as at various stadia in Perth and Dundee. Scottish Academy 3, Dunfermline Athletic 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAl Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 ...I think for this to work it'd be best for it to be the Scottish national under 17s squad for any given season, and being based at the new SFA performance centre at Oriam, Riccarton in Edinburgh, where they'd live and be coached for a year or two; they would compete in an expanded third tier (of 18 teams in a 14 - 14 - 18 - West / North / East structure) and all cup competitions for that level, but wouldn't have a home ground or any home games as such - they could play away to each team in their league twice, so giving every other team/club in that division an additional home game (18 home games in a 34 game season) and a guaranteed home game to any club that drew them in the cups (they'd effectively be touring the country, gaining competitive experience all season). See page 16 of thread below for possible 14-team league formats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Can't be long now until the papers ask, "Let's see how the Welsh managed to develop such a good crop of players?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Can't be long now until the papers ask, "Let's see how the Welsh managed to develop such a good crop of players?" Odds on it'll be because they play in England therefore the bigot brothers must be allowed to move in order to save Scottish football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Odds on it'll be because they play in England therefore the bigot brothers must be allowed to move in order to save Scottish football.Wales got lucky with the seeding and qualified from an easy group, as did NI. They have taken advantage of that and built confidence. Scotland don't seem to have the nous to take the breaks when they come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Scotland failed to qualify for Euro 2020, one of the major problems is the development of young players and the amount of game time that they are getting in a competitive environment. The bigger team must be able to field (B/Development) teams within the Scottish system, Be it in the "42" or in the Scottish Highland/Lowland leagues. These teams would be Under 24 and will play at the same time as the first team and there would be a cap on how many players from the first team would be able to play Celtic for example could get their under 19s and play them in the B team and allow them to develop together and get used to the tough aspect of Senior Football, instead of going on loan and faulting in their development. Loans would still happen and will still be beneficial. Celtic could play in League 2, Rangers in Lowland League etc and form it from there, expand the Scottish League and improve the divisions of below, loosen the critieria for Junior/amateur clubs to join in. Might be the worst idea I've ever heard Mr Doncaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAl Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 On 02/07/2016 at 3:14 PM, Hampden Diehard said: Can't be long now until the papers ask, "Let's see how the Welsh managed to develop such a good crop of players?" Supposedly it's because years ago Toshack bumped their experienced internationalists, put their under 21s team straight into the first team, and accepted that they'd be beaten a few times but that in the long run they'd end up with some very experienced players still in their mid-20s/at their peak and able to cope with the demands of a high level of football. I think they mostly came through the same academies as the English players, so the difference must be somewhere else - like getting the first team opportunities at an early enough age that the English weren't? Every season Scotland could have 64 new 16-year olds gaining experience of 30+ games at senior level if we had a national academy team competing at the lowest national senior tier, and with west, north and east academy teams (all full-time, under the aegis of the SFA) competing at the highest tier of each region (with a squad of 16-18 for each, to minimise the number of players sitting without playing competitive football of some kind) - ideally within an all in 14-14-18- W(16) / N(16) / E(16) or something similar. It would give them experience they wouldn't normally have at that age, where they're typically only playing age-group football, struggling to get into the first team, and not learning much new on the field. It would be a natural culmination of the Club Academy system, with the very best youths from each year group 'graduating' by being given their chance to perform at senior level for a season of league and cup matches. The rest would remain with their clubs or go out on loan. In this way, the national and 3 regional academies would be a foundation of successful future Scottish international teams, by giving a good level of competitive experience as early as possible, developing a quality and depth of talent. It would also be more attractive/palatable to fans than colt teams that are affiliated with specific clubs being allowed into senior leagues, and which there probably aren't enough decent players to fill anyhow. So our best 64 youth players each season would get a solid baseline of competitive experience at senior level, for a year at 16 years old, before returning to their clubs to try to break through the reserves (league...if that's what we end up with) and into the first team from age 17 onwards, or going out on loan to learn their trade. (And if the academy teams don't play home games - because they wouldn't really have a home ground - that'd give the clubs in their divisions an additional home game each as a sort of compensation for any imbalances in the league.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Burton Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 It doesn't matter how you try to dress it up, it is still a horrible idea. Its deeming to the supporters of lower leagues teams. The likes of Bale were not playing in League 2 or the Lowland league when they were 16 years old. There is already plenty of youngsters playing in the Scottish top flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAl Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 No, it isn't demeaning to anyone. They'd get to see the best youngsters that the country has to offer each season, and their clubs' places in the league wouldn't be under threat since the youth teams wouldn't be promoted or relegated. It'd add an extra bit of interest to fixtures, and they may even get these players on loan in subsequent seasons. Since not too many of these youngsters would be getting more than a handful of senior games at that age, it makes sense for them to be out playing competitive football. Adios! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Burton Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Clyde playing a bunch of 16 or 17 year old has no appeal whatsoever. You just need to look at the reaction to the Challenge Cup changes. Adding a youth team totally devalues the league. They can't get promoted or relegated as such there results don't matter. It could give teams involved in a promotion or relegation battle an unfair advantage. We already receive youngsters on loan from premiership or championship teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAl Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 It's not a bunch of 16 or 17 year olds, though - it's the national team. We'll see what happens with the Challenged Cup, but I think the negative (on here, anyway) reaction is more to do with colt teams of top tier clubs competing against other senior League clubs. I can see why this is demeaning, and this is exactly what I am proposing seeks to avoid. No, adding a youth team doesn't totally devalue the league - there's still everything for everyone else to play for and of course their results all matter since, by definition, they're playing in fixtures that contribute to the outcome of the season. The youths themselves would be trying to win the league in the same way as anyone else, and could measure themselves against promotion and play-off places, and previous year-groups' points totals - for these reasons of motivation, it shouldn't give teams involved in promotion and relegation battles an unfair advantage, at least no more so than current mid-table teams who have nothing left to play for just seeing out the season in 'holiday mode'. You would still receive youngsters on loan from Premiership and Championship level teams, including these ones, but just not until they're 17 or so. Whether UEFA would wear it, though, or which tier would be the right level, I don't know. I see it as a natural conclusion to our best youngsters' formal footballing education, where they could be taught tactics and technique intensively, full-time by the best coaches that we have, before being able to apply what they have learnt - each weekend at a good level of senior, competitive football. Compare the foundation/head start it would give to our future national team by each group of under 17s playing 30-40 competitive matches together and the opportunity that gives to develop an understanding of each other's games, with the current half dozen meetings of the national squad per season and the inherent difficulty of that in trying to get across tactics and build on-field relationships in a short space of time. The benefit to their parent clubs when they return would be having elite young players with good experience and tactical knowledge who are able to cope with the demands of going straight into first team, rather than being drip-fed into teams across the course of a season or two. Which means that from age 17, when they return from the national under 17s, more youngsters would be able to build on that initial experience at an earlier age. Then repeat, each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 The under 20 teams are pretty shite tbh. Well in comparison to lower league clubs. You'll find most players from these teams either drop out of football completely or if they are good end up at a lower league club. The exceptions will more than likely have broken into the clubs first team come 18/19/20. Demeaning to lower league clubs. And useless to under 20 players. A pointless exercise that would acheive nothing. How anyone thinks this could benefit the national team is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAl Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Ah well, things are clearly great as they are then: no need for change when our under 20 teams are 'shite' and our national team hasn't been doing too well over a period of decades. If only there was a way for our best youngsters to gain more experience at a higher level, train them better, and allow them to develop effective relationships by playing alongside each other game after game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Ah well, things are clearly great as they are then: no need for change when our under 20 teams are 'shite' and our national team hasn't been doing too well over a period of decades. If only there was a way for our best youngsters to gain more experience at a higher level, train them better, and allow them to develop effective relationships by playing alongside each other game after game... If you really think this will solve anything for the national team then you're absolutely Aff yer tits. Just look through the players in the national team at the moment. Vast majority of ones from Scottish clubs would have broken into their 1st team by the time they were 20. If a player hasn't done that up here then there's no way he's going on to play at international level anyway. Eta: have you heard of loans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Burton Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Ah well, things are clearly great as they are then: no need for change when our under 20 teams are 'shite' and our national team hasn't been doing too well over a period of decades. If only there was a way for our best youngsters to gain more experience at a higher level, train them better, and allow them to develop effective relationships by playing alongside each other game after game... It doesn't matter if they play for a premiership team or the national team, asking senior league teams to play school kids is demeaning . Of course it will devalue the league or own development team won 6-1 one week and got horsed 10-0 the following week. They would be hugely inconsistent for the whole season which would have an impact on the promotion and relegation battle. I am guessing you haven't watched much football at league 2 level as the standard is honking. I am sure the top teams would rather their decent youngsters go on loan to teams higher up the league structure than having our best youngsters play a full season or two at that level. The Scottish under 17 team have 9 qualifiers during 2016 and have 3 friendlies this month and in August. That's double what you thought and they will also be playing week in, week out with their own team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.