Lowland league v junior league

[non_sequitur]

Junior Football has some great honest people involved in it.

However it is difficult to see any sort of future for it compared to the Lowland League which has the possibility of eventual promotion to the league proper and of course Scottish Cup entry.

The Scottish Junior Cup match I watched on Saturday did not have proper linesmen and much of the match was spent with disputes on decisions; pure mickey mouse stuff. I cannot imagine any of the Scottish Cup matches on Saturday were played without a full set of officials.

Theres no enough refs tae go roon, that's no the SJFA fault

[wingnut]

Where's Isa when you need him,he's prob done a heid count and will be able to tell you the crowd even the Tranent fans,kidding aside 500 plus would be a very good crowd.

[Hertha/BJFC1938]

If Beith were to come out and announce they were in favour of a pyramid, it might entice other clubs to come forward...but they won't.

Its more preservation than being backward...nobody could accuse Beith of being a backward club.

Junior clubs won't vote for a pyramid to some it may be voting themselves out of existence

The present setup isn't great admittedly mate but with some right good tweaks and the most ambitious junior teams right there in the mix within the correct setup then I would be in favour of seeing my club giving it a right good bash to see just how far we could push ourselves via a proper pyramid setup.

I know the guys in charge of our game did give junior teams the chance to go to the LL and the majority of clubs knocked it back but if the talbots / linlithgows / Bo'ness / meadow/pollok etc made their move

then others could do so as well.

I love my club , I will watch them regardless but there's so much within the junior setup that I hate and the lack of a fixture list is the number one issue for me.

People dig the LL but they're trying their best and are showing ambition and aren't as bad as lots of people think .

Junior football is stuck in a bubble for me and the Ardagh cup ??

[HTG]

Do they have fans in the LL or is it just players relatives?

Check the LL forum - there are definitely fans kicking around. I don't dispute that clubs like my own are much better supported than most LL teams but you don't have to go too far down our leagues to get to sub 100 attendances.

[Glenconner]

Check the LL forum - there are definitely fans kicking around. I don't dispute that clubs like my own are much better supported than most LL teams but you don't have to go too far down our leagues to get to sub 100 attendances.

Maybe the difference being the relatives refuse to turn up at the Juniors.

[Hertha/BJFC1938]

When exactly did the SFA offer top Junior teams access to the Scottish Cup?

Were the SFA worried a Petershill, Cambuslang Rangers or Irvine Meadow might have won the senior cup.

When did the half baked pyramid idea appear?

Too little too late and they wonder why Junior folks are wary.

1- From around 2007/2008 if I remember correctly is when junior clubs were allowed access to the scottish senior cup via winning the junior cup or your regional super league.

2- Girvan retain membership which allows them dual entry to the junior and senior scottish cup each year.

3- Linlithgow rose and banks o Dee qualify for the Scottish senior cup every year due to being full members of the SFA which is something any club can achieve with funds / proper setup and their ground being of a fit criteria .

4. Junior football would and could be a major part of any pyramid structure but it's overwhelmingly been knocked back so of course the current pyramid structure will be flawed without us as we should be major players in it just like in England . ( a pyramid system without ourselves is like a top of the range speed boat with no driver)

5. I honestly don't think the SFA fear having us in their competition in terms of us winning it- yes we've done reasonably well on occasion but we've not set it alight either and more often than not have came up short collectively .

[1320Lichtie]

Check the LL forum - there are definitely fans kicking around. I don't dispute that clubs like my own are much better supported than most LL teams but you don't have to go too far down our leagues to get to sub 100 attendances.

Bo'ness/Linlithgow are different than other eastern teams they seem to be more on par with the bigger junior west sides? For whatever reason junior football seems to be relatively big in the west and Ayrshire in particular. It's not even a thing up here.

[Glenconner]

In past days the Juniors would have done serious damage in the senior cup.

Seriously think Cambuslang Rangers team from early 1970s would have beat most of Scotland outside the top six.

And the 1950s Juniors would have frightened most seniors.

That's why they were allowed in only a few years back.

Too little too late.

[Shanner]

Do they have fans in the LL or is it just players relatives?

take away a few bigger clubs and the juniors isn't exactly attracting the big crowds either and judging by the pensioner heavy demographic of most junior supports those crowds are going to decline in the coming years

[Glenconner]

1- From around 2007/2008 if I remember correctly is when junior clubs were allowed access to the scottish senior cup via winning the junior cup or your regional super league.

2- Girvan retain membership which allows them dual entry to the junior and senior scottish cup each year.

3- Linlithgow rose and banks o Dee qualify for the Scottish senior cup every year due to being full members of the SFA which is something any club can achieve with funds / proper setup and their ground being of a fit criteria .

4. Junior football would and could be a major part of any pyramid structure but it's overwhelmingly been knocked back so of course the current pyramid structure will be flawed without us as we should be major players in it just like in England . ( a pyramid system without ourselves is like a top of the range speed boat with no driver)

5. I honestly don't think the SFA fear having us in their competition in terms of us winning it- yes we've done reasonably well on occasion but we've not set it alight either and more often than not have came up short collectively .

Isn't England a straight league winners up bottom club down plus playoffs for the rest.

Where as Scotland is LL plays off HL then the winners play???

If anybody can be effed.

[Glenconner]

take away a few bigger clubs and the juniors isn't exactly attracting the big crowds either and judging by the pensioner heavy demographic of most junior supports those crowds are going to decline in the coming years

Probably reached that a couple of decades back.

Wing and a prayer for most clubs now.

Do we really need Cumbernauld Colts etc to add to it.

[Hertha/BJFC1938]

Isn't England a straight league winners up bottom club down plus playoffs for the rest.

Where as Scotland is LL plays off HL then the winners play???

If anybody can be effed.

Not done much research into it but there is a thing that's now called the national league now which was maybe the old conference and I think that gains you entry into the " real leagues" .

The English model should be far harder to work out than a scottish one as its a far bigger country in comparison to scotland.

[monthelie']

The present setup isn't great admittedly mate but with some right good tweaks and the most ambitious junior teams right there in the mix within the correct setup then I would be in favour of seeing my club giving it a right good bash to see just how far we could push ourselves via a proper pyramid setup.

I know the guys in charge of our game did give junior teams the chance to go to the LL and the majority of clubs knocked it back but if the talbots / linlithgows / Bo'ness / meadow/pollok etc made their move

then others could do so as well.

I love my club , I will watch them regardless but there's so much within the junior setup that I hate and the lack of a fixture list is the number one issue for me.

People dig the LL but they're trying their best and are showing ambition and aren't as bad as lots of people think .

Junior football is stuck in a bubble for me and the Ardagh cup ??

The lack of a fixture list is just farcical.

My sons under 13's team have a fixture list through to next May, yet the juniors don't have one.

My team are not one the junior big guns, but if we made the move I would still go and watch,but we're so far down the line now, that the LL probably doesn't give a f**k about the juniors now.

[Burnie_man]

I raised this point elsewhere but never really got a reply so I’ll repeat.

If the SJFA removed player re-instatement (which the SFA doesn’t recognise anyway), does that effectively remove any barrier between “Junior” and “Senior” status? Players would be players and move between “Junior” and “Senior” clubs without any need for extra paperwork or fees or hassle (and points deductions when it goes wrong).

The “Juniors” would then be no different from the Highland League or Lowland League or East of Scotland League or the South of Scotland League, effectively just another league body with the same overall rules on player movement.

Maybe something for clubs to consider ahead of next years SJFA AGM. It’s the last dinosaur-esque rule left to consign to the dustbin of history, maybe one of the more forward thinking clubs could table a proposal to abolish it.

[Bankies Alive]

The glaring omission is that there isn't a West Of Scotland Senior League.

When we wanted to keep our club playing there was no alternative to Junior football in the West and there still isn't.

[Glenconner]

The glaring omission is that there isn't a West Of Scotland Senior League.

When we wanted to keep our club playing there was no alternative to Junior football in the West and there still isn't.

BA, what you've posted deserves an entire thread on its own even just for the history side of things.

[itzdrk]

Traditional football supporters don't like glorified boys club kidding on their real teams with a history especially if they think old established teams like Clyde or East Kilbride Thistle are getting stitched up.

Clyde are a shambles and deserve wherever they end up SPFL L2 or Lowland League.

[Hertha/BJFC1938]

The Junior game has problems but to called a backward product is simply not right.

The essence of the junior game is regional competitive football between clubs who have a history of playing each other . That's a fine basis in which to build from. It is at a stage now where certain issues need to be changed not wholesale change absolutely no need for that.

Any product that can't give you any sort of fixtures in advance and one that can't get a sponsor for its biggest tournament is pretty much backwards to me.

[Hertha/BJFC1938]

Couldn't agree more.

The Talbot team of the late 80,s and early 90,s would have beaten most senior sides out of the top 6 or at least gave them a right good fright.

Them Talbot teams were amazing back then but we need to remember at the same time Talbot were picking up junior cups we had senior teams like Dundee United and Aberdeen reaching European finals and giving the best club sides In the world their medicine on a good basis.

The whole of scottish football was thriving back then in comparison to now , a good analogy for me is that the Talbot teams of back then could probably be easily compared to the top levels in senior football now but back then they would have been up against real class senior players and arguably the best senior players scotland have seen.

[HTG]

The Junior game has problems but to called a backward product is simply not right.

The essence of the junior game is regional competitive football between clubs who have a history of playing each other . That's a fine basis in which to build from. It is at a stage now where certain issues need to be changed not wholesale change absolutely no need for that.

It should be scrapped.