Lowland league v junior league

[Burnie_man]

Lowland league is where it's at and it will only take one major junior team like Auchinleck Talbot to recognise this and the rest will be sprinting after them believe me.

Sprinting where though? there is one vacancy remaining, and unless they expand the league you can only sprint towards the East of Scotland League or South of Scotland League, and I can't see that happening.

[Hertha/BJFC1938]

Sprinting where though? there is one vacancy remaining, and unless they expand the league you can only sprint towards the East of Scotland League or South of Scotland League, and I can't see that happening.

I reckon that the current LL League / any setup will Branch out to other leagues and that we will be in amongst it through any shape or form.

Junior teams will eventually all get a sniff of it and will become involved .

The ll is good for now but it needsmore

[MacGafraidh]

I agree they have to get a sniff much where the discussion will lie is whether it is at Level 5 or 6.

[cmontheloknow]

The elephant in the room is the SJFA not making a decision on where clubs will go if they should leave the Lowland League. This should already have been decided by the SJFA officials and is ridiculous that they have come to no conclusion or offered a proposal to their membership.

As it stands, the possibility exists that a Junior club could join the LL and decide after 5 years or so it is not for them. They are re-admitted to an SJFA league and are forced to start at the bottom.

However it is not is simple as saying 'that is unfair'. The SJFA is not in the pyramid therefore decisions about where clubs fit into its structure from elsewhere are far less clear cut than they would have been in the past.

Scenario 1: Talbot / Linlithgow go into LL and then come out. To start at the bottom of the SJFA again would be a 3 league demotion and is unfair.

Scenario 2: Newmains (SJFA 4th tier) go up in 2016 and come down after a season. If the mechanism was down into the top of the SJFA structure, they'd have effectively gone up 3 divisions. That could be perceived to be unfair and potentially viewed as cynical.

Scenario 3: Newmains (SJFA 4th tier) go up in 2016 and come down after 20 seasons which includes a 5 year spell in SPFL League 2. Would be still viewed as unfair if they came back down into the WRSJFA top flight?

That is why it is essential the SJFA make a clear and unequivocal decision.

Maybe they have to make it clear - leave and you're back to square one on return. The wishy-washy idea of returning to your former league (no matter its level) is IMO a non-starter - unless it only applies for a limited time.

[jimbaxters]

The elephant in the room is the SJFA not making a decision on where clubs will go if they should leave the Lowland League. This should already have been decided by the SJFA officials and is ridiculous that they have come to no conclusion or offered a proposal to their membership.

As it stands, the possibility exists that a Junior club could join the LL and decide after 5 years or so it is not for them. They are re-admitted to an SJFA league and are forced to start at the bottom.

However it is not is simple as saying 'that is unfair'. The SJFA is not in the pyramid therefore decisions about where clubs fit into its structure from elsewhere are far less clear cut than they would have been in the past.

Scenario 1: Talbot / Linlithgow go into LL and then come out. To start at the bottom of the SJFA again would be a 3 league demotion and is unfair.

Scenario 2: Newmains (SJFA 4th tier) go up in 2016 and come down after a season. If the mechanism was down into the top of the SJFA structure, they'd have effectively gone up 3 divisions. That could be perceived to be unfair and potentially viewed as cynical.

Scenario 3: Newmains (SJFA 4th tier) go up in 2016 and come down after 20 seasons which includes a 5 year spell in SPFL League 2. Would be still viewed as unfair if they came back down into the WRSJFA top flight?

That is why it is essential the SJFA make a clear and unequivocal decision.

Maybe they have to make it clear - leave and you're back to square one on return. The wishy-washy idea of returning to your former league (no matter its level) is IMO a non-starter - unless it only applies for a limited time.

I remember reading comment in the press from TJ a couple of seasons back but can't recall anything since. Has there been?

I'd love to know how much it gets discussed at the SJFA. I wouldn't be surprised if they put one hand over one eye but that would be incredibly dim. However, to have made no real comment on it doesn't seem real either.

[Hillonearth]

The sensible compromise would be that teams could rejoin the Juniors at the level they left, with that division running with the extra team the following year. That would seem fair, and would cut out the scenario above where teams could go LL for a year to springboard three divisions.

At this late stage, it's hardly going to happen en masse, but it would cover the odd team - say Haddington - who might want to give it a whirl.

[craigkillie]

In past days the Juniors would have done serious damage in the senior cup.

Seriously think Cambuslang Rangers team from early 1970s would have beat most of Scotland outside the top six.

And the 1950s Juniors would have frightened most seniors.

That's why they were allowed in only a few years back.

Too little too late.

As far as I know, nobody was stopping Cambuslang from gaining SFA membership and entering the Scottish Cup back then.

[Shanner]

Not really seeing how it's unfair for a returning team to start at the bottom. Quite the opposite in fact.

[itzdrk]

Not really seeing how it's unfair for a returning team to start at the bottom. Quite the opposite in fact.

Unless there is a way for the top to be opened for promotion to the LL then that should be standard.,

[garrellburn]

As far as I know, nobody was stopping Cambuslang from gaining SFA membership and entering the Scottish Cup back then.

History taught them that success is a temporary thing especially at junior level in an era when senior clubs could come in a cherrypick all your best players. The long term success of Auchinleck in more recent times may be due in part that they kept their teams intact and didn't have to rebuild them every season. A lot more to it than that of course, but it must surely be a factor.

[The Old Northerner]

At this late stage, it's hardly going to happen en masse, but it would cover the odd team - say Haddington - who might want to give it a whirl.

There really isn't an option "to give it a whirl". LL requires a Licence, a Licence requires engagement with the Pyramid (Linlithgow excepted). In our case, relegation from the LL would, IMO, be into the EoS.

[The Old Northerner]

I remember reading comment in the press from TJ a couple of seasons back but can't recall anything since. Has there been?

I'd love to know how much it gets discussed at the SJFA. I wouldn't be surprised if they put one hand over one eye but that would be incredibly dim. However, to have made no real comment on it doesn't seem real either.

This is the fullest article that I can recall - from January 2013. Junior Clubs had (IIRC) a two or three month window to decide on LL application. Not surprisingly, no one did at the time

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13087704.Nice_idea__but_junior_clubs_remain_unconvinced_by_reality_of_pyramid_structure/

Edit: Also found this - from June 2013

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13109216.Pyramid_scheme_faces_problems_from_the_outset/

[jimbaxters]

This is the fullest article that I can recall - from January 2013. Junior Clubs had (IIRC) a two or three month window to decide on LL application. Not surprisingly, no one did at the time

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13087704.Nice_idea__but_junior_clubs_remain_unconvinced_by_reality_of_pyramid_structure/

Edit: Also found this - from June 2013

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13109216.Pyramid_scheme_faces_problems_from_the_outset/

Thanks for these. So I am right then that nothing has been said publicly. Surely they must have discussed it at meetings?

[Glenconner]

Junior fitba has been and will continue to be in decline for years to come , due to the decline in senior football , most decent young players are going senior now or are opting for lowland league

Basically nonsense but on the general decline of crowds it's already happened decades ago.

[Glenconner]

History taught them that success is a temporary thing especially at junior level in an era when senior clubs could come in a cherrypick all your best players. The long term success of Auchinleck in more recent times may be due in part that they kept their teams intact and didn't have to rebuild them every season. A lot more to it than that of course, but it must surely be a factor.

Didn't the seniors sign the entire team one year?

[Hillonearth]

There really isn't an option "to give it a whirl". LL requires a Licence, a Licence requires engagement with the Pyramid (Linlithgow excepted). In our case, relegation from the LL would, IMO, be into the EoS.

Assuming by that stage there would still be an EoS to go to.

It’s not exactly in rude health at the moment, down to one division padded out by 2^nd XIs, and having lost Easthouses to the juniors and Kelso to the amateurs. Of the remaining sides, a fair few are actively trying to get in to the LL and I believe a couple more are watching developments at Easthouses and considering going junior.

[the tin man]

The eos is doing OK you have a battle for league winners imo leith will win it this year very good young side

[the tin man]

If easthouses had met the tranent fi last year a honestly think houses wide be top

[Shanner]

Basically nonsense but on the general decline of crowds it's already happened decades ago.

it's yet to bottom out.

[Glenconner]

it's yet to bottom out.

The crowds ain't.

With a handful of exceptions crowds are down to 20/30 looking on in the bottom Leagues.

Take way relatives and its committee and nothing else.

Social media doesn't really help in most cases.

Some teams seem lost on that front or there's nobody left to cater for.

Standard wise, on the wrong day a few seniors would be out the Scottish Cup.

A good player could easily say play for a local Junior team and be happy being home for 5pm rather than trail to somewhere like Castle Douglas on a Saturday playing for the Cumbernauld Colts.