Burnie_man Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 The SFA need to demonstrate what they mean by "commitment" (do they do this?), if not it opens up this requirement to all sorts of interpretation. "Yes we're committed but as part of the SJFA" otherwise they are expecting you to resign membership and move to another league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surely not! Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Well the HL is no longer a 1 horse race & if you recall many on here last season where claiming the title race to be over by Christmas, not me mind, that saying they where right. This season it is far from being a 1 horse race. Is that good enough for you t'ON? Grimbo Only one team won the HL since the pyramid came into play. The eos had a habit of being won by a different team for the last three seasons before the LL. Be interesting to see if LL starts the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 The SFA need to demonstrate what they mean by "commitment" (do they do this?), if not it opens up this requirement to all sorts of interpretation. "Yes we're committed but as part of the SJFA" otherwise they are expecting you to resign membership and move to another league. This was what the SFA asked of us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Oooft, that's all over the place! You would be more than happy to progress through the levels of Association Football to the SPFL on sporting merit. Not your problem that the SJFA aren't playing ball, and are the SFA going to force you to resign and move elsewhere? It's amateur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Oooft, that's all over the place! You would be more than happy to progress through the levels of Association Football to the SPFL on sporting merit. Not your problem that the SJFA aren't playing ball, and are the SFA going to force you to resign and move elsewhere? It's amateur. It very much *is* our problem that the SJFA aren't playing ball. That's why we've chosen to do what we've done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 So you're going to the EoS or trying your luck with the last LL place? Brave move, if a little surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 It's not a showstopper for Haddington though Burnie. They've got a good number of clubs reasonably locally based. It would probably be a showstopper for Beith or Kilbirnie in the sense that they'd be traipsing miles to play teams such as those listed earlier by HJ. If any junior teams are well placed to do this they are Haddington and Dunbar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Btw Where are Haddington in terms of achieving a licence? you are obviously quite into the process but do you have a rough time frame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Btw Where are Haddington in terms of achieving a licence? you are obviously quite into the process but do you have a rough time frame? We're looking to to have things in order for the start of next season. Planning permission on the big ticket items (toilet/first aid block and ground perimeter fencing (where required)) has been granted. All necessary documentation is also under review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdenbeath Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 The old firm in the right circumstances could bring thousands to these games. Out of interest did anyone watch hibs eofs side? Why was it stopped? I suppose in theory b teams have already been allowed to play in the pyramid without objection. You would maybe get local old firm fans turning up but I doubt it would get into thousands. Cowden played Rangers in a Reserve League game in 2012 and we got around 400 fans, good for a reserve game but not thousands. I doubt that the old firm would be interested. I imagine Celtic are more interested in this under 19 European tournament that they are playing in now rather than their domestic fixtures and if Rangers ever got back into Europe they would be looking for the same. Edited to add The EOSL wasn't in the "Pyramid" when Hibs and Berwick had reserve sides in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Hibs brought very few fans to EOSL away games, sometimes single-figures and never more than 1 or 2 dozen AFAIA. May have been odd exceptions, like their opener (derby v Leith) and international breaks. Even a cup final at Muirhouse on a spring afternoon after a home lunchtime Premiership game only drew c350 all-up. Both they and Berwick quit after 1 season without LL clubs. Going by SOSL constitution 'reserves' cannot go beyond EOSL/SOSL: http://www.southofscotlandfootballleague.co.uk/LeagueDocuments/download/25498 18. The winners of the League championship shall hold the trophy for one year. As part of the Scottish FA “Pyramid” system, the South of Scotland Football League is “opened” up to promotion and relegation, to and from the Scottish Lowland Football League. 18.1 The winners of the South of Scotland Football League may be promoted to the Scottish Lowland Football League provided that the club meets the required entry criteria. Promotion is mandatory, providing the necessary entry criteria and qualifying process is met. 18.2 Clubs being relegated from the Scottish Lowland Football League will be allowed to join the South of Scotland Football League, provided they meet the entry criteria. 18.3 Clubs are not allowed to have more than one team in the “Professional” structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 It's not a showstopper for Haddington though Burnie. They've got a good number of clubs reasonably locally based. It would probably be a showstopper for Beith or Kilbirnie in the sense that they'd be traipsing miles to play teams such as those listed earlier by HJ. If any junior teams are well placed to do this they are Haddington and Dunbar. Yeah I get that all that, but I’m surprised given that they are undoubtedly a club on the up, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility they may be a Superleague club in a few seasons time. It’s perhaps understandable that they may want to try their luck at an application for the last available spot in the LL but if they fail, going down the EoS route would be a little puzzling to my mind. History records that moving “Senior” has its risks, where did it get Ormiston Primrose? Preston Athletic are a reasonable success story but much of that was due to their new facilities and renewed interest rather than specifically a move to the EoS. Personally speaking as things stand, I’d be more than happy if my club went down the licencing route to gain Scottish Cup entry (I know that some “Senior” bods bristle at such an attitude), but I would be against moving away from the Juniors into the current “Pyramid” set-up until such times as Junior and Senior status was abolished and we combined members of both the EoS and the East Region. Something which should have happened before the LL was ever conceived and why we’re in the current mess. Hence my interest in the SFA’s wording of “commitment to Pyramid”. The SFA should not be linking full membership and Scottish Cup participation to what league you play in, as the governing body in this country it should be about encouraging improvements in facilities and the way a club is run first and foremost, with Scottish Cup entry as a reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinabear Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Hibs brought very few fans to EOSL away games, sometimes single-figures and never more than 1 or 2 dozen AFAIA. May have been odd exceptions, like their opener (derby v Leith) and international breaks. Even a cup final at Muirhouse on a spring afternoon after a home lunchtime Premiership game only drew c350 all-up. Both they and Berwick quit after 1 season without LL clubs. I am genuinely quite surprised with how low the hibs crowds were for this. Would have thought they would bring at least a couple of a hundred to games especially if the first team were not playing. I still believe that B teams overall would increase the crowds in the LL. Lets be honest it is probably currently averaging at 150ish per game which could be increased considerably with B team additions and especially the OF. And as a result bringing more money into the clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I am genuinely quite surprised with how low the hibs crowds were for this. Would have thought they would bring at least a couple of a hundred to games especially if the first team were not playing. I still believe that B teams overall would increase the crowds in the LL. Lets be honest it is probably currently averaging at 150ish per game which could be increased considerably with B team additions and especially the OF. And as a result bringing more money into the clubsClubs struggle to get people willing to pay in to 1st team games in the face of live TV opposition. The days of people turning out in numbers to watch the reserves when the big team aren't playing are a thing of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Most bigger teams have training centres miles from anywhere (Lennoxtown/Auchenhowie/Ormiston etc), and short of players' relatives and a handful of obsessives don't get much in the way of crowds for games other than when the first team are involved. I went to one Hibs EoS game over at the HTC (half a game to be precise - it was an early kickoff, and I nipped off round the corner to watch Ormiston at halftime), and there weren't any more than a few dozen spectators there despite a few first teamers playing (Kevin Thomson being one of them IIRC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Yeah I get that all that, but Im surprised given that they are undoubtedly a club on the up, its not beyond the realms of possibility they may be a Superleague club in a few seasons time. Its perhaps understandable that they may want to try their luck at an application for the last available spot in the LL but if they fail, going down the EoS route would be a little puzzling to my mind. Basically, if we're of a mind to try the LL at all, promotion into it is as good as being accepted in to it - just (hopefully) a season or two later. History records that moving Senior has its risks, where did it get Ormiston Primrose? Preston Athletic are a reasonable success story but much of that was due to their new facilities and renewed interest rather than specifically a move to the EoS. The EoS was pretty much a similar box back then - just with a glass top (also the Ormiston story has to include Pencaitland - such mergers are problematic in themselves). There was no talk of us going Senior when I first got involved a decade ago. There's always going to be a risk with such a move but, this time, such a move will be into a much different environment. Personally speaking as things stand, Id be more than happy if my club went down the licencing route to gain Scottish Cup entry (I know that some Senior bods bristle at such an attitude), but I would be against moving away from the Juniors into the current Pyramid set-up until such times as Junior and Senior status was abolished and we combined members of both the EoS and the East Region. Something which should have happened before the LL was ever conceived and why were in the current mess. As has been agreed almost universally, it is hardly the perfect scenario. Otherwise, you'd obviously be hearing from more than just us. But waiting for the barriers to come down would be an open-ended task. We have an opportunity *now*; waiting carries its own risks. Hence my interest in the SFAs wording of commitment to Pyramid. The SFA should not be linking full membership and Scottish Cup participation to what league you play in, as the governing body in this country it should be about encouraging improvements in facilities and the way a club is run first and foremost, with Scottish Cup entry as a reward. Of course, Scottish Cup participation isn't linked to a particular league (or set of leagues) as Harestanes and several Junior clubs can testify. The license is another story and I wouldn't necessarily disagree; we are where we are, however, and we all have to do what we think is best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I know it was before licensing became a factor, but not knowing the history, it didn't seem like Girvan moving from the SoS to Juniors affected their SFA membership. Was there ever any attempt around that time for a Junior side to become a member of the SFA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Banks O'Dee and Linlithgow Rose both subsequently have become full members by gaining entry level licensing. Clubs have to commit to the concept of progression through the "pyramid" that the SFA are implementing to gain that. In the north region and the portion of the east region north of the Tay that's not an issueat the moment because there is no promotion mechanism available into the Highland League, but in the east (south of the Tay) and west regions there is a perception (yet to be tested in practice) that gaining licensing means that you would have to leave the SJFA and join the EoS or SoS league. Linlithgow Rose have been grandfathered in as they started the application process before the new requirement was added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 As has been agreed almost universally, it is hardly the perfect scenario. Otherwise, you'd obviously be hearing from more than just us. But waiting for the barriers to come down would be an open-ended task. We have an opportunity *now*; waiting carries its own risks. I'd be interested to understand what risks you perceive there are by remaining in the Juniors? We know we could be here forever and a day waiting for this mess to be resolved, but I noted the joy displayed by the club upon promotion to the Premierleague last season, and the anticipation of the challenge this season and building on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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