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Juniors to join Lowland League?

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The junior superleagues should be the feeder leagues to the Lowland League with the EoS and SoS leagues amalgamated into the junior pyramid. all below the Lowland League would not need to be licensed. The likes of Auchinlek Talbot can remain unlicensed, still win their league year in, year out without the scary thought of promotion to a bigger league.

However orher clubs will be in the pyramid system so the can get their license and enter the Scottish Cup. Clubs below the Lowland League can still enter their "Holy Grail" cup.

Who gets promoted if Talbot don't want to?

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I'd like to see things develop as Cicero suggests but I don't think it will happen. I think we are more likely to see new teams like EK emerging, maybe from places like Glenrothes, Winchburgh or one of a number of new settlements being planned to cope with population growth. As the odd SPFL team drops down over time, we might see the odd junior team defect. I'd always thought of the likes of Haddington or Dunbar, as those areas seem less deep rooted in the juniors culture, though I can't say I know much about that.

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Who gets promoted if Talbot don't want to?

The same situation as currently exists. The Western half of the pyramid would not have anyone being promoted that year. That scenario might work for a few seasons until clubs realise that Talbot are almost assured of an automatic Scottish Cup entry without the actual need to be licensed.

They would be holding up the progress of clubs willing to be promoted while reaping the benefits of Scottish Cup money. The league (the clubs themselves) may then have to put in some punitive measures (e.g.a minus 15 points start for the following season) to stop that scenario happening.

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None of this will happen. The juniors will simply not entertain their top flight leagues as a sub structure to the current lowland league. The depth of quality on the pitch within the juniors would render the pyramid something of a laughing stock. I say this as someone who fervently believes there should be no walls in Scottish football.

It would only happen if the sfa mandated the whole thing and that clearly isn't on the agenda. There is no integrated solution now. The whole thing was weakly managed to begin with and will remain sub-optimal for years to come.

It's a real pity but I don't think the LL teams should fret about it - not that they are. It means they'll retain a greater slice of the Scottish Cup cash pot and will be better able to progress on and off the pitch whilst the majority of junior teams continue to fret about where their next pound will come from and scoff at £150k toilets whilst asking their "customers" to pish in a trench (which they'll need to stand in.

Scottish football at this level is an absolute mess.

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A decent point was made above, many clubs going for a licence either want to keep their place in the Scottish Cup or try to shoehorn themselves into it rather than harbour any ambitions to become a league club.

Haddington could be interesting if they get licenced. Will they be allowed to remain in the Juniors ad infitum (as I would guess is their preference) whilst enjoying automatic Scottish Cup participation. If so, you may see more Juniors going down this route.

As mentioned previously, Haddington have had to commit to the pyramid, so the option of grabbing a license and then doing diddly squat hoping the SFA won't notice would be risky indeed - I'll assume that all clubs trying for a license (since Linlithgow) will have made a similar undertaking.

Edited by The Old Northerner

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I'd always thought of the likes of Haddington or Dunbar, as those areas seem less deep rooted in the juniors culture, though I can't say I know much about that.

This is the only neck of the woods where Junior and Senior non-league are pretty much on a par - and a few clubs have hopped between the two setups. They've co-existed for about 90 years but it still seems strange that I can drive past a dozen clubs who we've never played competitively on the way to a Junior game

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This is the only neck of the woods where Junior and Senior non-league are pretty much on a par - and a few clubs have hopped between the two setups. They've co-existed for about 90 years but it still seems strange that I can drive past a dozen clubs who we've never played competitively on the way to a Junior game

Agree with this. If any team is going to jump to EoS and then LL, it's Haddington. But there is no chance you could ever view that as the start of the floodgates opening. For Haddington there is a lot of sense in moving to the new structure.

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Just for the lolz, I'd love it if Beith moved ...

30 miles closer to Haddington than Montrose ;)

Edited by The Old Northerner

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The SFA's aim was to have a pyramid in place, and that's what they have. That it's not actually comprised of the best non-SPFL clubs is almost an irrelevance to both the SFA and the SPFL, believe me. The SFA can quite rightly say that their aim has been met. They have excluded no one, as the best Junior sides had the chance to join but decided not to. Forcing the Juniors to join up is simply not on the SFAs radar; why would it be? It'd cause so much bad feeling, and for what?

So, don't wait for the SFA to sort out the issue, as they don't see that there is an issue. Either join up, one at a time or en masse, or don't. They don't care.

Any comparison with England's pyramid, where teams with 5000 + crowds abide, and ours, where teams play in towns that don't contain 5000 + inhabitants, is meaningless. I've said it before and I'll bore you again; well-run clubs like Talbot would be aff their heid to join the SPFL. Essentially a village, with no major conurbation nearby (unlike Ross County) and no real history of having to travel about the length and breadth of Scotland with the effect that would have on signing players.

The pyramid is a dog's breakfast, but it's here to stay, warts an' all.

The Pyramid is not a dogs breakfast, it is not perfect but the main thing is that it's here. We are now well in to our 3rd season. & if anyone says it's not improved the standard of football & the facilities for the fans then they are a dogs breakfast.

We all have our ideal pyramid system & I confident once it's a bit more established it will be refined.

The fact that certain teams choose not be part of it is their loss not ours. There is still one more place available for next season, so it will be interesting to see who applies? Until a Junior team applies they should just be ignored if they post ignorant undermining comments.

Both the HL & our LL are far more competitive which is probably why there's jealousy from certain quarters because of the staleness of their own leagues.

Grimbo

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Just for the lolz, I'd love it if Beith moved ...

Renamed Beith Seniors just to rub Salt into the wounds

Edited by Cicero

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You'll be asked for your rationale here. Not least by me :D

Well the HL is no longer a 1 horse race & if you recall many on here last season where claiming the title race to be over by Christmas, not me mind, that saying they where right. This season it is far from being a 1 horse race.

Is that good enough for you t'ON?

Grimbo

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Well the HL is no longer a 1 horse race & if you recall many on here last season where claiming the title race to be over by Christmas, not me mind, that saying they where right. This season it is far from being a 1 horse race.

Is that good enough for you t'ON?

Grimbo

Ah - the HL & LL are far more competitve than they were rather than far more competitive than other leagues. OK, understand now.

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Well the HL is no longer a 1 horse race & if you recall many on here last season where claiming the title race to be over by Christmas, not me mind, that saying they where right. This season it is far from being a 1 horse race.

Is that good enough for you t'ON?

Grimbo

Not really. Absolutely f**k all has changed in the HFL and they are almost more determined than the juniors to make sure it stays that way. Who wins shit is a matter of evolution and natural change more than it is anything to do with the league structure in both HFL and LL in my view.

Grim old bean, we have a far from perfect pyramid. It will always be a matter of concern that Scotland can't get something this easy sorted out. Maybe not to you but that's cool.

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Not really. Absolutely f**k all has changed in the HFL and they are almost more determined than the juniors to make sure it stays that way. Who wins shit is a matter of evolution and natural change more than it is anything to do with the league structure in both HFL and LL in my view.

Grim old bean, we have a far from perfect pyramid. It will always be a matter of concern that Scotland can't get something this easy sorted out. Maybe not to you but that's cool.

HT I think we are on the same page that the current Pyramid is not the perfect system but it is 100% better than NO Pyramid.

It took Scotland a very long time to build the Pyramid so let's not keep knocking it, we don't want it to fall down do we? Let's build it stronger. I believed that originally it would be stronger with the Junior product as part of the building material now it appears to be substandard & suffers in artificial light?

:)

Grimbo

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As mentioned previously, Haddington have had to commit to the pyramid, so the option of grabbing a license and then doing diddly squat hoping the SFA won't notice would be risky indeed - I'll assume that all clubs trying for a license (since Linlithgow) will have made a similar undertaking.

As mentioned somewhere above, you can remain part of the SJFA whilst being "committed" to the Pyramid as part of the SJFA, who are members of the SFA.

If the SFA got shirty with that, I'm sure any half decent solicitor could drive a bus through the SFA rules on the matter.

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As mentioned somewhere above, you can remain part of the SJFA whilst being "committed" to the Pyramid as part of the SJFA, who are members of the SFA.

If the SFA got shirty with that, I'm sure any half decent solicitor could drive a bus through the SFA rules on the matter.

It's probably time I checked up on this :D but I'd be pretty sure that the rights and responsibilities of full SFA membership will differ from membership inherited via the SJFA. I'm happy enough with "direct action" to show commitment rather than arguing that ticking a box on a badly worded SJFA consultation document is equal engagement

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