Grim O'Grady Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Aye cmon everybody this juniors pish means a lack of Spartans threads Worst still Manty, there's a camera mans strike tomorrow so Peebles will be Spartan TV free. It's going to be awfy quiet round here IMHO! Grimbo Eta Manchester la la lah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windofchange Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I get along to Bonnyrigg and W welfare every few weeks and the juniors will never move over as they love their league and local derbys regardless of peoples opinions or the standard of ground,facilities or teams etc I fail to see why Juniors play in the sfa Scottish cup thoe I would love both to join up and take it from there but it will never happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 It always amazes me that juniors want to remain juniors (which is fine and I respect their right to choose to play in whichever setup they wish) except when it comes to playing in the senior cup and they defend their right to play with the Big boys. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim O'Grady Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 It always amazes me that juniors want to remain juniors (which is fine and I respect their right to choose to play in whichever setup they wish) except when it comes to playing in the senior cup and they defend their right to play with the Big boys. Why is that? What amazes me more Cic is that when it comes down to the fitbaw their wee leagues are more precious than Golmen's ring & never the twain shall meet (except like you said our big Cup comp & there's no honour lost about joining in then, no moaning about travel either). But what really gets my goat is they have the audacity to come in/on here & tell us our League is not worthy of them, or is not a pyramid blah-de-blah. Now I understand why it's called junior football it's because it's like juniors mentality, hopefully one day they will grow into seniors. Grimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 To be honest, the vast majority of Junior clubs won't get a sniff of entry to the "big" cup. Certainly here in the West only the same half a dozen or so clubs have qualified since they were able to, so it's hardly keeping the other 55 awake at night whether Junior participation continues. These threads inevitably descend into the same circular arguments and mud-slinging though, with the usual "plastic teams" vs "dinosaurs" stuff flung around. My team's in a fairly unique position, as we're the only Junior side with a LL team groundsharing with us, so I'm well placed to see the good and bad in both structures, and as is normally the case, there are elements of truth in the accusations from both sides of the fence... I can only speak for my own side though - I'm sure every one of the 160-odd Junior teams will have its own narrative of why they didn't. The reasons we never applied (apart from the short flash to bang time) was that within the last decade we'd already overstretched ourselves as a result of investment that turned out not to be ongoing which had inevitably affected our league standing, the fact we're located less than a mile from a pre-existing SPFL side which would always limit potential crowd size, and the very salient fact that were it to come to pass, the prospect of reaching the lowest reaches of the SPFL - let's face it, chances are that that would be the best it would get - simply wasn't that appealing to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice of Reason Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 To be honest, the vast majority of Junior clubs won't get a sniff of entry to the "big" cup. Certainly here in the West only the same half a dozen or so clubs have qualified since they were able to, so it's hardly keeping the other 55 awake at night whether Junior participation continues. These threads inevitably descend into the same circular arguments and mud-slinging though, with the usual "plastic teams" vs "dinosaurs" stuff flung around. My team's in a fairly unique position, as we're the only Junior side with a LL team groundsharing with us, so I'm well placed to see the good and bad in both structures, and as is normally the case, there are elements of truth in the accusations from both sides of the fence... I can only speak for my own side though - I'm sure every one of the 160-odd Junior teams will have its own narrative of why they didn't. The reasons we never applied (apart from the short flash to bang time) was that within the last decade we'd already overstretched ourselves as a result of investment that turned out not to be ongoing which had inevitably affected our league standing, the fact we're located less than a mile from a pre-existing SPFL side which would always limit potential crowd size, and the very salient fact that were it to come to pass, the prospect of reaching the lowest reaches of the SPFL - let's face it, chances are that that would be the best it would get - simply wasn't that appealing to us. Good post. There is plenty room for Juniors and Seniors to work side-by-side. Entry into the Lowland League with its commitment to accept promotion into the SPFL is not for everyone and putting a club at financial risk just doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Not sure why people still cling so tenaciously to this junior vs senior thing, as if there is a huge difference between the two. It's all just football and in my experience most football people in the central belt have no problem having loyalties in both grades even if they tend to be more interested in following teams in one grade rather than the other. It borders on bizarre to try to claim that the SJFA is not an integral part of the SFA and that clubs like Bo'ness United and Auchinleck Talbot are an alien presence in the SFA's top national cup competition, when the SFA handles player registration and referee appointments for both grades. If the top east and west superleague clubs were routinely getting knocked out in the earliest preliminary rounds like Burntisland Shipyard or Golspie Sutherland odds on there would be no issue on that, if they were no threat to HL, LL and SPFL4 clubs on gaining the financial windfalls that are obtained through a draw with one of the larger full-time clubs. The pyramid issue will be rumbling along in the background in the years ahead on subforums like this one regardless of what anybody posts about it, just as there was always a constant stream of people asking why the bottom club in the national divisions wasn't getting relegated. The SFA is now one of only two associations within UEFA (the FAI is the other) to have not implemented a pyramid by moving away completely from the concept of separate parallel grades. I don't think there is any sensible comparison with England at this point when Clydebank the most obvious counterpart to AFC Wimbledon in a Scottish context, have decided to give the new fifth tier the body swerve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunrise Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 What amazes me more Cic is that when it comes down to the fitbaw their wee leagues are more precious than Golmen's ring & never the twain shall meet (except like you said our big Cup comp & there's no honour lost about joining in then, no moaning about travel either). But what really gets my goat is they have the audacity to come in/on here & tell us our League is not worthy of them, or is not a pyramid blah-de-blah FFS Grim - there's a handful of junior supporters who are on the forum speaking like that. The thread below is a better example of the junior mentality (ignoring pccabe) - if your thinking of Bankies I could fish up examples of him saying other junior clubs (including my own) have no fans! http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/226050-talbots-scottish-cup-replay/ I'd be keen for my team to join the Lowland League - there I've said it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Has anyone asked why a Senior club like Easthouses Lily have decided their future lies in the Juniors and not building for the LL? I hear they may not be the last EoS club to make the leap. With promotion from the EoS looking a long way off, the LL itself may well effectively become a closed shop once Edusport Academy are admitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theref Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Has anyone asked why a Senior club like Easthouses Lily have decided their future lies in the Juniors and not building for the LL? I hear they may not be the last EoS club to make the leap. With promotion from the EoS looking a long way off, the LL itself may well effectively become a closed shop once Edusport Academy are admitted. Easthouses were the despite their league position one of the worst footballing sides i saw last year they left to make a few extra bob with their local pals not to promote better football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Perhaps they left as they saw a better future in the Juniors rather than LL? The guys that run the club appear to be professional in their approach and have worked hard at improving facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windofchange Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Easthouses did the best thing financially for their club i see no problem with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Perhaps they left as they saw a better future in the Juniors rather than LL? The guys that run the club appear to be professional in their approach and have worked hard at improving facilities.I don't think it's juniors vs LL, the choice was juniors or EoS, a league that has been severely weakened recently. I don't think it's that bad of thing if EoS clubs end up joining the juniors, it certainly helps to clean things up in terms of the pyramid. Tho obviously there's still the massive hurdle of junior officials not even willing to talk about a merger with the eos, nor how to position themselves in the pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 The problem is that progressing up the "pyramid" would be the more obvious target, if the new fifth tier had been implemented properly. Will be interesting to see what happens with the EoS league over the next few seasons. It's the clubs in and around Edinburgh that are most likely to switch grades and given they tend to be the stronger clubs that would seriously impact its playing standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Your quick to say that the juniors are an integral part of the SFA. How come they allowed the fifth tier to be implemented in a way that is not satisfactory to them if they are such an integral part of SFA? I am sure a representative from the juniors was on the working party. However it seems Spartans are always quick to be blamed for the rushed implementation. The juniors also have to take some of the blame for the way it has worked out as they played such an integral part of its implementation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 I don't think it's juniors vs LL, the choice was juniors or EoS, a league that has been severely weakened recently. I don't think it's that bad of thing if EoS clubs end up joining the juniors, it certainly helps to clean things up in terms of the pyramid. Tho obviously there's still the massive hurdle of junior officials not even willing to talk about a merger with the eos, nor how to position themselves in the pyramid. Have the EoS approached the SJFA? I suspect not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Your quick to say that the juniors are an integral part of the SFA. How come they allowed the fifth tier to be implemented in a way that is not satisfactory to them if they are such an integral part of SFA? I am sure a representative from the juniors was on the working party. However it seems Spartans are always quick to be blamed for the rushed implementation. The juniors also have to take some of the blame for the way it has worked out as they played such an integral part of its implementation. The SJFA approach to the Pyramid was shameful, as was the SFA who let the likes of Spartans run with the LL idea and push for implementation which they knew very well would be far too quick for Junior clubs to consider applying. The whole thing was one big clusterfuck. It should never have been implemented until the Senior/Junior barrier was removed, the SFA could have pushed hard with that and ultimately abolished it. they didn't. Anyway, what's done is done, although I can see the EoS dying a slow death and with it the only feeder to the LL. Pyramid, what pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Have the EoS approached the SJFA? I suspect not.Perhaps not, but its in the clear interests of both leagues , those in power need to get over themselves and talk to each other.although I can see the EoS dying a slow death and with it the only feeder to the LL. Pyramid, what pyramid. so the eos dies off, the juniors east region takes on the feeder place, seems absolutely fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 I'd like to see how my club would respond to the prospect of having their licence revoked. We're now sitting on piles of cash and it's no coincidence in my view that we are doing so because we're making decent cash from the Scottish Cup. So even though we've not come that close to winning a great deal in the juniors (one trophy in 2 seasons) we're better off than we've been in years. There would be consternation if our current derogation were boomed out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Don't forget "Friends of the Rose" handing over wads of their hard-earned. That's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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